thanks for the info guys. JKeller, a good friend of mine owns a video toaster so i'd buy lightwave through him so i could get the discount. 1500 dollars off is a LOT of money saved.... movida, im more interested in modelling, not animation, so id definitely factor that in as well. as for other programs, ive tried a lot. ive tried rhino, truespace, raydream, carrara, bryce3d, etc. ive narrowed it down to either lightwave or max. just thought id see what you guys would recommend. im looking for something thats versatile and powerful and doesnt cost so much that i have to mortgage my house to buy it -- like maya. maya courses in my area also cost around 13-17k. heh. i think ill pass on that one.