umm, can i just say i highly appreciate the contributions that both of you have made to realism in poser?  wow, face_off, that picture is incredible. i won't even ask who the figure is, because those shoulders are so great i can't imagine it's anything but a figure in beta.  bagginsbill, it would be nice to have an option that doesn't need recalculating with light changes.  if i were better at lighting i wouldn't need to experiment so much, but i'm still working on that.

again, thanks to you both.