I had a hunch :/ that would be the case oh well. As to Meshes I make tree Mesh so if you guys need trees let me know I was given LightWave 6 for XMass and have the Tree Druid plugin to make trees :) the pines in my posted pic are from it. I dled the plant studio demo so the out put looks beter than the previews they give ? Ill have to reinstall it and try it again. Thanks for the info all.