Yo Steve. Fact you're up at 2:45 a.m. to follow this thread is illuminating. Forget the spin, you really ought to listen carefully to your customers, they, not warez copiers are your market. Why make unwarranted assumptions about your "competition" from pirate sites. There's a lot CL could do to cut down on piracy short of the program it has embarked on. e.g why put a manual on the CD? If CL stay's the course, I'll bet you a steak it'll have a couple of strong competitors within the year. Concentrate on product and lead the pack, concentrate on pirates and lose the lead. Sincerely gww