Yeah, I wasn't trying to go or sound OT with Carrara/Shade 8 or any other app, just babbleing I guess(late night here), lol,... was just showing that Bryce can be integrated into the workflow of any big/small app out there, no matter how much better looking any HDRI renders are. I also believe that the OP just wanted to show a compare with HDRI, and not say which app was better. Unfortunately, Bryces older code is no match for Carrara, and my apples to oranges statement meant; compare the HDRI, not the 3D apps. Hope I said right...all in fun.