Phantast, you're right. I think I wanted to say expensive instead of overpriced ( which refers to a relation between cost and quality :). I never regreted any cent invested in Poser or the Daz' models, but I wanted to point that for common people with medium salary ( those who can't afford Max ;), it makes a lot of money. Mocap, some years ago, I was earning far more money than now, so when I bought Photoshop and Premiere I did not find it was so expensive, while I could not even buy them now... so I was refering to people with medium budget... Dragontales, yes, Photoshop is more expensive than Poser, but it's designed for professional artists who earn money with it...don't you think many Poser users don't make money with it? Clsteve, wow, still sorry and ashamed for flaming CL, while I love Poser and think that for the use I have of it, it's really good priced. Really want CL to have more legal users. Mason, no offense, none taken ;) joelegecko