Got it working! Byrce is off by exactly 90 degrees. I used my scene turntable technique a few posts above. It is still a rough GI fake though since there is no actual global illumination in B6. Of course you could easily pop in some shadowless fill lights to set things right. The good news is all the objects have 0 ambience and 100 percent diffusion/zero specular. Can I post the HDR file here or do I need a link? Pretty soon I'll do some compositing experiments in PS to see how well it really works, but this is definitely way ahead of what we had in B5. Scott