Thanks! But for multi-pass the flaw comes from the cast shadow and its hard to get rid of when you composite. True AO or GI just have that nice contact shadow. This version comes with the contact shadow and the true shadow. See the darker circle under the sphere? That's a nice contact shadow, but that larger fainter one is the cast shadow. Bryce just needs to borrow the AO from c5pro to get that too. A little levels and curves in PS lets you blow out all the greys and just mainly keep the shadows, but the big honking cast shadows are harder to get rid of. Still - this is miles ahead of what we used to be able to do in Bryce. DAZ is at least sending it forward like they said they would. Aside from a few minor bugs it is stable too. Nice job beta testers. I know from experience how hard they must have worked testing it. Scott