doom dancer I meant the full version upgrades that they make after acquiring. The corel version of Bryce has like 3 new things and a really bad handling/rendering of volumetric materials so they did the upgrade thing for it. Bryce 5 has (according to the press release) several new features that will make old and new brycers want to upgrade...and most likely, even upgrade for a full price. My guess is it will be between 200 and 300 bucks (US). There is a NDA...but bryce5 has a release page already printed that previews some of the features... soft lighting plants terrain editor break away menus (but it still works the same? no new features here?) a faster render engine (not sure if the old one still exists too..side by side comparison renders were several percent faster on 5 than on 4) and other stuph that Ive forgotten was printed btw, Im not a beta tester...so Im not breaking any NDA stuph. When it is officially released, I will get a drop ship of it and do a quick review for everyone so they can determine if they want to get it. The "plants" feature is what I'm excited about. Vue has had it for forever, 'bout time that Bryce did. later BT