Blood song has a good point with the bottom left of the image, but I think we have a gama issue between our systems, because the shadows of the figures are as dark as the background on my screen. I have my screen, sofware, and printer all calibrated to each other, and I'm not so sure how that affects images on the net. Somthing to consider i guess, but have no idea how to fix that type of gama problem. pnevai, I do see what your getting at, but it changes the entire mood of the image, and that is what is most important. You loose the projection of emotion and Power to it, by taking away the drastic diferance in lighting it softens the image, and makes it more tender or sorrowful than painful. The image needs the darkness to excentuate the mood. If not it losses it. The arm dtails and texture work was all done to making the arm look tence or strained, as if he was holding her so tight that if he did any tighter he'd pull a muscle. Look at the two again and see if you see what I'm talking about. I've seen that type of tention and emotion before and it is a horible but beautiful sight almost unnatural. I'll be posting a new version refigned in max later on tonight. I think I managed to improve on both problems you have brought up. I mimiced the two charecters lighting almost exacly (which makes me quite happy), and was able to make the wall a more natural rock surface and a bit less drastic and cubicle, which helped the shadows there, and the door is also being lightend a little. Lighting texturing and focus, is much more versital in Max than poser. i think i pushed pore poser further than it would have liked me too. As for what I'm trying to get out of this image, I'm trying to express an emotion. and that is the primamary conearn for it. I don't know if that changes the perspective or not, but using all of my knowlage and skills, to acomplish that is as you said hard as hell, but that is why I'm asking for your critiques, and what separates a hobbist from an artist. I take it from your pation that you are an artist, so I figure you understand what I'm talking about. As for left to right dark to light, that is a very good basic consept but western world spacific and those tequnices are ment for reducing tention in images. Though the basics are one of the most important thing, I'm trying to create tention, so breaking some of the rules are a very effective wat to do it, but again lets continue this when the next post goes up, I very much like your imput, and think you are going to like what I have done. It is really tuogh when you push the limits of your equipment or in this case program, and aren't there yet.