ThrommArcadia, thank you for that. You said all of the things I wanted to but was too steamed to get out the first time around... (got deleted. blush). I was another one in the other thread making the photo analogy and I too stand by it. If I weren't so irritated by the preachy manner of the first post I might have been able to explain myself better. I find it most galling that people find it so easy to make vast and grossly exaggerated claims about what crap Poser art is, in the face of Photography or other kinds of art. It is even more annoying when the persons doing the ranting do not appear to be practicing what they preach (but I won't go there because i don't want to get slapped by Karen again). Most of those "10 commandments of art" sounding statements above could be applied to ANY art form, not just poser. Come on, you think the first thing the guys who got the first cameras did was that much better? There are tons of nudie pictures in those old tin pictures from the olden days. Heck, even my grandpa, amateur photographer that he was had a few risque pictures of my grandma from before my mom was born. They are pretty much run of the mill "she might as well have been in a temple with a sword in her hand" sorts of pictures. But for him they were art and they had meaning. I don't think it is FAIR to say that just because somebody uses some pre-made models or backgrounds that they don't know what the blazes they are doing and saying it that way makes it sound flat out insulting to the poser community as a whole. How many people actually make ALL their own stuff for poser anymore? And what's more, why should they? And who is to say they are less of an artist if they don't create every little thing by hand? Many of the points in the first post were valid, it is such a shame that they had to be pushed out in such an insulting manner...