*Humans like to think themselves as being intelligent. So if we are so intelligent why are
we always finding new ways to kill, cheat and carry out such high levels of brutality on each other as well as damage the very ecosystem we need to survive in? How can you call that intelligent?

*Thinking only humans do this is a special kind of naive.  As one biologist noted, if ants had nuclear weapons their wars would sterilize the Earth in a few hours.

Getting back to the conquistadors, not only were the Aztecs brought down in part by some of their own victims, the conquest of the Incas was made easier because the Spanish happened upon them just as they were finishing a brutal civil war.

Ants are not humans and while they are very efficient and organized they do not reason nor do  they have the intelligence we claim to have. And I'm too damn old and seen too damn much to be "naive" LOL!

More disturbing than bullfighting and Casette being spanish... 

The new V4 hair will not have Alan Alda fit poses!!

ACHT!!

That's bullcr@p!!

Hey! Who threw that red cloth at me!? Casette!?  :P

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=48848&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

One of the many errors in today's politically correct thinking has to do with the idea than an oppressed group of people -- once they are freed from under the yoke of their oppressors -- the 'ex-oppressed' will suddenly begin to work miracles of tolerance & understanding.

The long, sordid pages of human history -- again and again -- reveal the absolute folly of such thinking.

The locals who joyously helped the conquistadors to overthrow the Aztecs soon discovered that they had merely traded one cruel taskmaster for another.  But at least the Spainards didn't torture them and then sacrifice them on stone altars..........

Human beings are not nice people.  And this applies across the board.  Study the history of ANY nation.  Basic human nature will tell each and every time.

I saw a statistic a while back which stated that there have been approx. 20 years of 'true peace' scattered out over the last 2000 years or so -- and that the 20 years were not contiguous.  I don't know where they came up with that figure -- because personally I seriously doubt that there have been that many........

Quote - There were massacres on both sides.  The atrocities were nowhere near as one-sided as some would have us to believe.

If there were two legitimate sides I would agree, but there weren't. There was only one population with a right to be in the area - and they lost, to the point that only 200,000 were left alive in all of the USA in 1900.

And bringing the Aztecs into that is different.
Yes, I noted it as the second largest genocide in history, after the conquest of Hispanolia, but neither of those is in Toltec lands. I am well aware of the fact that Cortez' "conquest" of the Aztecs was actually a Toltec uprising in which he only played a part as an icon of fear which he later used to establish control after the Toltecs were likewise weakened by disease beyond the point of resistance.

• Something that became key a few centuries later, in the late 1800s, when US Calvary, knowing their history, intentionally gave pox-ridden blankets to Natives on reservations in order to finish them off.

For those who say don't rub each other's past into the present... this is the present for many people. There are women my age alive today who were forcibly sterilized by the government to keep Indian births down. There are men and women both my age who were taken from their parents and given to white families to be raised in 'civilized conditions'.

I was born in 1971.

Only a few years before my birth my parent's marriage was illegal in much of the US, due to anti-mysogenation laws.

But... you wanted to know why I find cowboy hats objectionable. You got it.

If you don't like it, too f-ing bad. Deal. Deal with the fact that a lot of people view the western expansion as a wholly unjustified atrocity, and it brings up harsh memories for many. Turkey has its denial of the Armenian Genocide, Japan Denies the Rape of Nanking, and the US denies the west.

This isn't political correctness - this is being the decendant of a person who walked the trail of tears.

It may be intellectual for you, for me, it is my bloodline that was spilled, and the story is in the faces of all the cousins that were never born.

And don't try to sidetrack that by claiming the old 'noble-savage' line - Where did I say native people were 'paragons of tolerance etc'? Nowhere. I'm not talking about white usurpation of our politics to justify their liberalism or their conservatism. I'm talking about my blood.

Like I said, it was off-topic. You should not have asked me - just accept that I don't care much cowboy hats. I accepted that the other poster didn't care for Matadors, although I agreed with him in that case - I could accept it as his view nevertheless and just move on to art.

But if you ask me wahy, I will answer, and if you don't like the answer, too bad.

Actualy Cowboys may not be the guilty party (settlers and the US Cavalry are the actual perpetrators), but the image of them has been tied up with the western occupation, even if they are really just cattle herdsmen.

Hey, why let facts get in the way, just attribute it to cowboys in general and move on.

Any more collective guilt you'd like to discuss?

If there were two legitimate sides I would agree, but there weren't. There was only one population with a right to be in the area - and they lost, to the point that only 200,000 were left alive in all of the USA in 1900.

Who's the arbiter of "legitimate"?  You?  Sociologists?

There are theories that modern humans took Europe from the Neanderthals.  Do you burn a little incense for those Geico fellas at night?

If we start worrying over what people's feet first trod every meter of Earth's surface, it's going to take a long time to sort everything out.

BUT, if one does (I do not) one should start with Israel (freshest wounds and all that).

I'm European.  Should I be whining about the Mongols?  They left mountains of skulls (men, women, children) in their wake.  How about the Moors?  Ever wonder about how the Slavs gave their name to slavery?

- Something that became key a few centuries later, in the late 1800s, when US Calvary, knowing their history, intentionally gave pox-ridden blankets to Natives on reservations in order to finish them off.

Define "key."  How many instances of this are reliably documented and confirmed?

*For those who say don't rub each other's past into the present... this is the present for many people. There are women my age alive today who were forcibly sterilized by the government to keep Indian births down. There are men and women both my age who were taken from their parents and given to white families to be raised in 'civilized conditions'.

I was born in 1971.*

Amerinds butchered people and took women and children as slaves.

Only a few years before my birth my parent's marriage was illegal in much of the US, due to anti-mysogenation laws.*

Blue laws?  You're really worried about blue laws?

But... you wanted to know why I find cowboy hats objectionable. You got it.

As you say, because of some Hollywood nonsense.

If you don't like it, too f-ing bad. Deal. Deal with the fact that a lot of people view the western expansion as a wholly unjustified atrocity, and it brings up harsh memories for many. Turkey has its denial of the Armenian Genocide, Japan Denies the Rape of Nanking, and the US denies the west.

Hey, we can get all medieval if you want, but I don't think you do so I'm not going to give you both barrels.

This isn't political correctness - this is being the decendant of a person who walked the trail of tears.

Yes, it's PC.  I'm a descendant of a person who was murdered by the Mongols.  My ancestor was butchered by Attila.  We've all got our racial grievances.  Do we drag them into unrelated threads?  Well, no.

It may be intellectual for you, for me, it is my bloodline that was spilled, and the story is in the faces of all the cousins that were never born.

Are you a racist?

And don't try to sidetrack that by claiming the old 'noble-savage' line - Where did I say native people were 'paragons of tolerance etc'? Nowhere. I'm not talking about white usurpation of our politics to justify their liberalism or their conservatism.

I don't follow.

Like I said, it was off-topic. You should not have asked me - just accept that I don't care much cowboy hats.

Ah, I should've just let your insinuations sit there like a fart in the room, and pretend I hadn't smelled it?  I'll decide what I should and shouldn't do.

ahem  this isn't really the place to discuss this, guys.  Let's not turn an "excitement over new figure" thread into an arguement.  Please. 

Just saying my piece Jen.  I'll respect your order/request, if it is respected generally.

I dunno, so far I'm pretty underwhelmed.  The face is remarkably like v3's to my eye.  I want to see if they improved the cheekbones, as that seems key to making a really versitile face.

Will need to see more poses to see the 'improved joints.'

Attached Link: http://brneurosci.org/smallpox.html

The "smallpox blanket" story is simply an urban myth: with little-to-no evidence backing the claim up.  Other than political correctness, that is..........

Yes, we could get into a drawn-out debate on this one.  But as Jen has indicated, I'll let it drop.

Quote - The Radiant Jaguar Hair by Quarker # Includes Fits for: * Victoria 4 * Victoria 3 * Stephanie Petite 3 * Aiko 3 * Aiko 3 Realistic It also fits V2 with no adjustment. Coldrake

At first it read: "Hair fits only V4". So they've changed it now.  

There are some really big questions that move me these days:

• Shall I still buy some of the wonderful stuff for V3 that I collected in my wishlists in different stores?
• Can I afford a new figure - plus her morphs - plus a texture to make her look human - plus a dress to hide her nudity - plus a wig for her bald head - and of course some decent pairs of shoes for her?
• And an  upgrade to P7?
• And a new PC with loads of memory and harddrive space to make P7 work and to store all the runtime content?
• And all this so close to christmas?

No, of course no. I'll have to set all my hopes on the fortunes of lottery. Maybe the next jackpot will hit my purse.

Yeah, V4 and P7 coming out so close to such an expensive holiday seems pretty short sighted to me.  I mean, maybe some people will give these things as gifts, but as of yet, I still can't expain leaving a download link under the Christmas tree.

I too am underwhelmed with the default look of V4, but her expression morphs look fantastic.  That has always been a sore spot for me with the basic Daz characers.  No way to really use V3 or M3 for animation if you want great acting (well, unless you import them into another program like Maya and adjust the mesh yourself.)

Remember this, there will be a V3-V4 model, so you can easily still use all your old outfits, and there is the Wardrobe Wizard if you want to actually use the improved V4 mesh (that is assuming that it will be an easy thing for them to upgrade to support V4.  I understand V4 works a bit different than what se are used to.)

Looks to bend better but am really not seeing anything that can't be done with v3.  Of course the forums are covered in ooo's and ahhh's but there are already characters in RMP and Daz for V3 that look just like them. 
I don't think many will have a choice if they want new characters and clothes because once she is out, that is what Daz will push. This is the same thing that happened with V2, either learn to make your own or buy V4.  I bet Daz drops support for V3 almost immediately.

**"but as of yet, I still can't expain leaving a download link under the Christmas tree"

**ThrommArcadia - LOL!! Mind you, I wouldn't mind having that as a Xmas gift. Roll on the 11th for Poser 7!!!

Quote - Hey, there are a lot of things I don't subscribe to, and I don't complain when I don't get those perks.

You want em, Ya buy em. 

Ya don't want to buy em, suck it up is all I'm saying.

Your dismissive comments are selfish, and child-like There are more adult ways in order to discuss these differences of opinion..

Quote - *Humans like to think themselves as being intelligent. So if we are so intelligent why are
we always finding new ways to kill, cheat and carry out such high levels of brutality on each other as well as damage the very ecosystem we need to survive in? How can you call that intelligent?

*Thinking only humans do this is a special kind of naive.  As one biologist noted, if ants had nuclear weapons their wars would sterilize the Earth in a few hours

Humans are the most destructive animal around...And it take a special kind of naive not to admit it...
As far s your ant analogy..They don't, and we do...

"Humans are the most destructive animal around...And it take a special kind of naive not to admit it..."

Not true!  Sharks with laser beams are the most destructive.