i'm not necessarily talking about the base default face being ugly or not, i mean with the morphs added. Look at SP3, she's never been very popular cause it's generally agreed she's not pretty. i do own her and have a few packages that make her attractive but they are a rarity. Whatever you do with SP3, you are fighting a losing battle cause she's fallen from that aforementioned ugly tree. Now this character by maelwenn (i think) is stunning and i would happily run over to Daz with my credit card and damage it severely with V4 if she was released but so far nothing else has really inspired me to do so yet. i know some characters are pretty but i already have plenty of pretty characters for V3 that don't require another thrashing on my bank balance. i think i agree with Simderella on the waxy eyeballs and puffy eyelids, also on the tea and crumpets bit too!