Natolii I actually did not know about the wardrobe wizard I've just had a look at it and it seems pretty essential to this 'upgrade' so thanks for that :) ... but I still think that if Daz had just a little loyalty to their previous customers they could have saved everyone a hell of a lot of converting and wiggling. Lets face it Daz is the Poser equivalent of Microsoft, it is possible get by without using their products, but sooner or later they're gonna get you and then you're their slave... forever (evil laugh). :p Gonzo