Sex really does sell. All of the hot 20 in the Art Gallery are sexy or sex shots. hmmm.

Yeah it does. As an experiment I posted my pinup at the exact same time I posted my male face texture and my pinup has over 4x the number of hits and hit #1 in the beginner top 20 in a day. I dont even have nudity in the thumbnail, I simply included (Nudity) in the image title. But I post in the Beginner gallery, and the beginner hot 20 seems slightly more under control. My male face texture is in the top 20 and contains no nudity, and I see several other images that have no sexual content whatsoever. The Poser gallery is just rediculous. I see so much great artwork in the Poser gallery, but they never get the hits. There are a few regulars in the Poser hot20 that have developed a two-step formula : Step #1: create a thumbnail that is a closeup of a bare ass, breast, or a see-through panty. Step #2: Make sure you include the words Pinup and Nudity in the title. Now I'm not mentioning names, everyone knows who these people are. One only needs to look at the Poser top 20 and see what I mean. Theres nothing wrong with pinups, but I believe that people who just obsessively crank out pointless softcore porn image after softcore porn image should be posting at renderotica instead. Come on people anyone can download/buy a texture, slap it on vicky, pose her and render it. Lets see some art.

Well, one of the first things I wanted to do with Poser was create "erotica." Somehow, I'm guessing that an overwhelming majority of purchasers start out playing with those nude models.

After working on a few erotic scenes, I came to the conclusion that I probably wasn't making anything that hasn't been done before, so I haven't finished any of those scenes.

I hate to say it because I don't want to sound critical, but many of the images I browsed on renderotica just seemed pointless to me. On a level of pure pornography, photographs are simply better than computer-generated.

To be transformed from pornography to art, the image has to make some sort of statement, I think, or show something more profound than mere nudity or sexual acts. That's an especially tall order when it comes to erotic art- humankind has had a fascination with sex for millenia, and a lot has already been said about the subject.

Despite that, sexuality is about as universally appealing as any theme gets. Also, I that probably people assume there is more upside to sexual themes than other themes, so they're more willing to check out the sexual images.

I'm saying that like I don't do it too, which wouldn't be entirely accurate.

One thing that has disappointed me a bit is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of support for Michael and male figures, at least when compared to support for Victoria and the P4 Nude Woman. To me it's a sign that, at least somewhat, sex drives innovation.

Couldn't agree with you more. You hit the nail on the head.

I'm glad someone started this thread. I was getting overly tired of the same images always being posted, always by the same people. To me, I don't see much difference between most of them anymore. Slightly different pose, no background to speak of, and if I see that damn box they pose them on anymore, I'm going to go nuts. And what the hell is with all the comments each one of them gets. Has anyone noticed that it's always the same people and basically the same comments? It's like some sick pep rally thing going on. Now, I'm not here just to see my images get hits, but it's really frustrating when you spend hours on end, create something you want people to see, and then because it happens to fall between some other more racy thumbnails, get hardly anything. My images do contain females, and they are somewhat sexy, However they are not nude, and although I don't have a problem with nudity, hell, I love it, I agree with the statements above that it's getting a little out of hand. Dragontales Ps. Hope I don't offend anyone, but lets see some more creativity. Pinups are fine, if they are really well done. I saw one the other day that honestly looked like it had been painted by a master. I kept a copy of it for my wallpaper, and told them so on the comments section.

I actually never got into the "sex" pictures because I think it is just a cop out, unless you can capture a feeling in the picture. I have only one picture in my gallery that has even a little overtones of sex, but it is my worst picture in my opinion. So what does that tell you?

Don't get me wrong - theres nothing wrong with posting a few images that have erotic poses or nude women. The female form is art in itself. However, when people just mass produce these assembly-line pinups and they end up dominating and stifling serious art it gets to be annoying. Pinups can be great, but dont abuse them as a tool to get hits and to dominate the top 20. I've deleted my pinup that I posted that rose to #1 on the top 20 in the hopes that it will help (even if only a little bit) other works that artists have spent a lot of time working on get some more attention.

i'm heading for the Hot 20....and i'm taking a new avenue to arrive there.......pure shock value.......i'm working out the details in my head day by day.....something that'll have the same effect as a nasty wreck on the freeway......you don't want to look, but you can't bear to turn away.......there won't be a breast, ass or nether region in sight......maybe it'll break the trend of nekkidness in the Hot 20.....i myself have to agree with br0ken.....the female form is art in itself.......but i've seen things around the galleries that smoke pinups, hands-down.........perhaps shock value is no better than T&A.....but the idea here is that it's NOT T&A taking me there.......keep your eyes open for it ;)

LOL! I never really look at the Poser hot 20 but now I did... and there's 6 images with the word "pinup" in the title... lol. so not only do they all contain nude or half nude babes but they also have similar titles ;) I'm so bored with images that have nothing but a naked or half naked woman in them but you know what? no one forces me to view them! :)

I've seen profoundly beautiful nudes made in poser. But they're few and far between. Nudity for the sake of nudity is immensely boring.

This is like the 3rd time I've seen a similar arguement around here and I happen to like looking at nudes. Sorry some of them are "works of art" cause I own the same programs and I can't turn out the same quality. What really bugs me about the galleries isn't the lack of views, but the lack of comments. It seems that a lot of the time if you aren't in the in-crowd your work can get ignored wether it is a nude or not. BTW I'm not refering to myself cause I only got one pic up but I've noticed it with quite a few new people when they post pics. My guess is that if you want more than nudes and the occasional pic, we should comment on peoples work and encourage them to post more. Otherwise we will get more of the same stuff.

hey now.... i posted a nude of myself in 2d art a long time ago.....and hardly got hits on it well only like 100 hehe and im not fat or ugly... so i guess the ppl who like porn only want to see fake tits instead of real,sighs

Damn, and I missed it? Aw, I always miss everything good

i would really looove to get involved with this thread ...but...last time i did that i got blasted ... o well nnuu

lol, the admins are hard at work. poof off to the C&D forum it goes anyone ever play starcraft/warcraft/diablo on battlenet? when you are banned from a channel you end up in "The Void" They should rename the C&D forum The Void, because this is where all the threads go that the admins sweep under the rug. Apparently saying nudity is bad is bad for business.

Ok...I've been reading the thread about F***ing nudes since yesterday, and now this one. I've tried to remain silent, but I just feel I have a need to defend myself, if no one else. I am one of those offensive people who do pin ups...But you see, that has been my style of art since I began posting here. Anyone who wants to go in and view my gallery will see that all my images (well most all) are of the Pin Up variety. I rarely use a nude...although I have on occassion. Some people do fantasy art, some do soft porn, some do fairies (I happen to like fairies and even have a character for sale in the store who is based on a fairie), everyone has their own style. I do not post my ladies with the hope of landing in the Hot 20...sure, I've made it there a few times, but it's inconsequential to me if my work makes it in there or not. More times than not, I've posted a full face view as my thumbnail. Yea, I've also posted T and A thumbnails, too...all depends on how my mind is set when I'm getting ready to post. I've also named my images with just plain names...Misty, Marvelous Melody, Cara....the list goes on. As for the "Box" that seems to be getting slammed...we who use it a lot were given the privilage to beta test those textures you see on that "box", and as a way of saying thank you to the creator, we try to use them often so that maybe he will get some sales for his hard work. I am sorry if offends your delicate sensibilities, but I shall continue doing the kind of art I love to do...All I can say is if you don't like it...don't look at it...but do NOT try to take away my right to do it.

Guess i'm going to have to start checking C&D before commenting. I didn't get to the forums yesterday to see that this same thread had been discussed yesterday.... Heheh.

Destiny...woh! hold on their. Noboday said you can't do what you do. Some of these pics are worthy of being called art. Heck, art is in the eye of the beholder, but there are some people who posts nudes purely for the purpose of posting something nude. It also sucks when you create someting, that you think is great, but the butt shots get more hits purely for that reason. Check out my mystery man picture, and you will see what I mean. I am not saying my art is incredible or anything, but I have spend hours on some of them, trying to convey a message with lighting, textures or facial expressions etc. Even you have to admit that a lot of people browse the new pictures like porn freaks, dicounting "lagitimate art.

The admins are not sweeping this under the rug by putting it in the C&D forum. The Poser forum is for questions, comments, etc. on using the program. Debating the content of created pictures goes into the Complaint and DEBATE forum. I'm tired of pointless pin-ups as well, but please don't slam the admins for moving posts to appropriate forums.

ummm.....i'd like to reiterate......sometimes i'm not as vevbally articulate as i'd like to be.....i'm in no way offended by pinups or nekkidness......if there weren't laws and such....i'd save a fortune on clothing ;) what i was getting at was that i'm going to attempt to get into the Hot 20 without doing a pinup, softcore, or other such image.....and a valid point was made by Moonbiter....we could all stand to be more encouraging of our fellow artists by taking a few seconds to say something, be it critiquing or praising, about the images posted.....and btw.....my sensibilities are far from delicate ;)

I do admit I've seen images posted in the gallery that seem to have been made with one purpose in mind...make it to the Hot 20 and get as many views as possible...And I agree that they are not really in any way shape or form to be considered art...I guess why I'm upset is that people seem to have taken aim on Pin Ups in particular...even tho even in real life, that IS an art all by itself! Do you have any idea how much the nude pin up of Marilyn Monroe is worth these days? There are pen and ink artists out there who make quite a tidy income from drawing naked or half naked woman...You even see it hanging in real life galleries. They receive high praise for their work. But we Poser people who get great joy from doing the very same thing on a computer are made to feel like what we do isn't worthy of even being considered art. I, personally, am hurt deeply by that train of thought. I love what I do, and I am not bragging, but I think I do it rather well. My work is all tastefully done, and I have gained a relative modicum of respect from my fellow artists here at Renderosity, as well as at 3D Commune. Maybe it's a form of wish fullfilment for me...I WISH I had a body like those in my artwork. In some small way...maybe it makes me feel better to know that at least I can create what I wish I were right here in the comfort of my living room. And if I wish to share my creations...I shouldn't be made to feel like I am just sitting here cranking out nudes and semi-nudes for the sake of landing my stuff in the Hot Twenty. A little piece of me goes into each and every render I do. They are kind of like my children in a way..I love each one of them, and it hurts to see them insulted or degraded. Believe me, I would LOVE to do what I see some of the great artists here do...but I can't...I've tried... I just don't have that degree of talent. But I do nice ladies...and I have fun doing them, and I really wish people would be more tolerent of people like myself.

Destiny, I don't think anyone has a problem with well done nudes. Some of them are great. But you yourself admitted that there are quite a few that are just cranked out to get into the top 20. Now me, I pay no attention whatsoever to the top 20. I could care less. But it does seem a bit unfair if the ONLY Poser work that's getting into the top 20 are nudes, when there are so many other fantastic artists out there doing other kinds of work. Of course, well done nudes should get in there. There's been work and time and care put into them. I've seen some fantastic figure studies from Poser, both male and female. But come on, you know, the nude isn't the only thing Poser can do. I saw one picture today, I can't recall the name of the artist or the picture, or even whether it was here or at commune. It was a woman on her knees in a chapel with fantastic lighting and mood. It deserves to be in any top 20, but it probably won't be because the woman wasn't nude. And I'm sorry, but that's just not fair at all. Maybe it would be good to limit the top 20 to the top 10 best nudes and the top 10 non nude pictures. Not everyone would be happy, but no one would be getting screwed and it would at least be fair. And I'm very sure your work would still end up there just as often, though I doubt that's your aim in doing what you do.

You know Bone...you are absolutely right!!! I think a category division would be the perfect solution to this dilemna. I myself have noticed the trend in the Hot 20...and it's not a good one. I've seen absolute works of art being passed over in favor of T and A pics....the one artist that comes to mind is Morris. Her work is incredible...the details are amazing..she has lighting and surroundings down to a science...and yet I never see her work in the Hot 20. There's something a little ... no.. a LOT not right about that. And I do know what picture you were referring to...I saw that and it made my jaw drop...I would kill... (well maybe not THAT extreme) to do work like that!!! Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Admins could come up with a way to evenly distribute the way the Hot 20 is done...I for one would love to see something like that.

heyas; my take is: 1: what the hell is the hot 20?? (i certainly dont see it anywhere on my renderosity pages. i see a web ring top 15.) 2: who the hell cares? :) if the billboard top 100 list doesnt have your favorite bands on it.... then don't pay attention to it. that's all the hot 20 is. pop music. if you have alternative tastes, go to the galleries to find what you like, not the top-whatever list. i guess i see where you're coming from.... you seem to CARE what lands on this hot 20. i dont care, so it fails to bother me. but what do you expect? if you want to make a list of the most popular images (or music, or whatever), over a broad spectrum of people.... you're gonna end up sifting the lowest-common-denominator stuff to the top. and that's not to demean anybody's artwork. that's just the way it is.

My problem is NOT with the Hot 20...I could care less about that...my problem is with people thinking just cuz a person does a pin up...that makes them less of an artist...or a person who just wants to MAKE the Hot 20....

Halla-freakin'-lua!!!!!!!! I could not have said that better myself Destiny.

This may be slightly off topic, but what I'd like to see is two things. 1. I like the idea about splitting the gallery and/or hot 20 to have a nude and non/nude section. Although one has to wonder if the non/nude would still suffer from the same loss as it does now, and perhaps more, because people are in the other gallery and don't even get to see the non/nude thumbnails 2. The one thing that bothers me when I post is the fact that I use more than one program to create my art. I'd really like it if you could click more than one gallery when posting. For the most part, I'd wager that most of my work is done in 3d Max, however that gallery in itself gets few visitors, and I know that if I'm looking for some comments to help make a pic better, the poser gallery is the best because it's got Many Many more visitors. I know many people use bryce, for intance, but in order to put something in poser and bryce, you have to post it twice, and that wastes server space. Perhaps allowing people to click two or more programs would not only give more variety when we surf the galleries, but give our art more of an audience. Dragontales

Funny you should say that...Renderosity seems to be THE place to post a Poser image...seems to be the busiest gallery...Now on the other hand, at 3D Commune, the most popular gallery is the Bryce gallery...people post there even if their image has nothing at all to do with Bryce just cuz they know it will be seen more...and maybe commented on more. Believe it or not...I have just today discovered I can click on the All Galleries and see what is new in every one of the galleries here. I will continue to do that because I want to see what everyone else is doing.

I have 78 viewing on something I posted 2.5 hours ago, because of an ass. I rest my case.

Tis sad...I admit that...but let me tell you something...I tried to do some serious Poser Art....a few times....and I got practically zilch reactions. I came to the conclusion that people just like to look at what I do best...All I can tell you is do what YOU do...and who the HELL cares what anyone else thinks....We ALL know T and A get the most views here...that is a given...Unfortunately for me that's all I know how to do, but I try to do it tastefully. I have viewed your gallery..your work is amazing...I feel a sadness that it's not getting the recognition it deserves....I just wish I know how to fix that. I'm a Pin Up artist....so my opinions on this subject may not count for naught...but I just wanted to say...I love your art :)

just take a pic of the rents doin it hehe. pinky,time to take over the world again,lol

i dont have a problem with a pin up girl pics...im just bored of it always being nude ...i just think members should show off their skills a little more ...push their boundaries a bit ....i totally agree with bloodsong nnuu

Did I miss an election? Was someone annointed as arbiter of gallery content? Or dictator of taste? Seems to me that the number of viewings is pretty much a form of democracy. You want to control gallery content, then start your own version of the Paris Salon. If you think the public taste is too low brow for you, maybe you better not depend on making too much money from mass marketing your art. IF I posted to the galleries, the only comments that I would be interested in would be about technique and composition. The only person whose opinion matters as to content is my own. I do not imagine that I am alone in this.

Umm cuze me...but I believe no one answered Bloodsongs question..which by coincedence would be the same question I have..what the hell is HOT 20..where is it and why? I only ask because I want to see for myself what all the fuss is about. Thank you Cazcie

Hot 20 is in the art galleries section. Click on Poser, then you should see that choice.

132 viewings now for "ouch" because of an ass thumbnail. Just a few shy of my best art picture "mystery man." Sad, so very sad

well.... if we all make thumbnails of a closeup of a nipple, and use that for every thumbnail of every image we post.... we'll get more views. :: :)

hrmmm... or a thumbnail of a rivit that vaguelly resembles a nipple... I still thought it was an elbow gray... 8 )

(((132 viewings now for "ouch" because of an ass thumbnail....Just a few shy of my best art picture))) I know exactly how you feel. "Private Beach" because of my CMA (Cover My Arse) thumbnail spent 5 days at No.2...and one I threw everything I was feeling at the time called "De Profundis" got 16 viewings. 16.

sometimes what you think should make the hotlist doesnt.. what counts is that you love the image and know in your heart that its really good... i know this feeling alot cuz i hardly make 2dhotlist,lol

{They should rename the C&D forum The Void, because this is where all the threads go that the admins sweep under the rug.} Actually, this is one of the more active boards...

Not the hotlist bonbon, screw the hotlist...but, 16 viewings?

1. Or 19 for the version posted to 2D gallery... :-) And I have to agree with the gist of the comments - excellent work on the guy's expression.

Having observed the goings-on in these galleries for a while I find I've become obscessed with the Top 20. I must be a Top 20. Mastery of 3D modelling, texture and render won't get there. Naked Posette will. I will stretch and pull her, just so. Then I'll post her with a title like "Impossibly Sexy Nude #1". It will make the Top 20. Then I'll post "Impossible Sexy Nude #2", and IT will make Top 20. Then "...#3", then "...#4", etc. After #20, I ALONE will BE the Top 20! YES!! I ALONE!! Tremble, you feeble earthlings!!

I don't really know what is art, I just know what I like ;-) However, I hate to jump on anybody, but there is an image in the Poser Hot 20 right now that was put there to prove a point, a bogus image in other words. I'd say the point was made, time for the originator to delete the image- how would you feel if you were someone else who spent a lot of time on a image that was currently number 21, because you are taking up a slot? You have become what you are making fun of!

Grayhuze, I saw the ass thumbnail...and passed it right by. What's the whole point of this? Like many have said, if the image has nudity in it, and you don't want to see it or are bored with it, don't look at it. I check out some of the nudes every once in a while, just for fun. And I have to agree with some, nudity for the sake of nudity gets kind of boring after a while. But again, if you don't want to see it, do what I do...don't click on the thumbnail. Simple. And that's all I've got to say about that! :)

Well, I just deleted the "ass" test. Sorry if I offended anyone. Final tally of viewings before it was deleted was 300 on the nose, which should have landed it in the top 20 but for some reason was left off. Oh well, I am "devistated" :)

Remember, the Top 20 only counts unique hits in the last 7 days. The main gallery counts all hits. Read the help on the Hot 20 page for explaination of how it all works.

Destiny, that was eloquently stated and completely to the point. I agree whole-heartedly. It's your business what kind of images you want to post and no one elses. As long as your images are legal by Renderosity standards, then if people are offended by them, the can just stay away from your images from then on. Keep on posting, Destiny! :)

I go to whats new when I come here nowadays. The top 20 just doesn't always show the art that I came here to look at. I agree with what everyone on these forums are saying, but I come here just to get inspired and I see some really great stuff. Like Destiny and a few other artists here, the ones whose art I like I remember. The others I don't. I also look at traditional media pinup artists or artists that paint nudes, one is in the top 3 for print sales. We are no less artists than anyone else.