When I grow up i'm gonna get a real rendering engine, for the moment I'm stuck with Poser :-( Setting the shadow to 0.5 just tones down all the shadows for the frame and the panels - same problem. The workaround sounds like it'd work Ockham, but before taking that direction I'll probably just render twice, once with and once without then rejig the thing in Photoshop. The problem is that's with and without for each light... BTW, Geisha were sometimes highly trained and talented 'entertainers', but the references to their being prostitutes are rife. If my experiences of Korea are anything to go by, prostitution often hides behind other 'services' so the suspicion that they occassionally offered more than conversation might be more than just a western perversion. My Geisha is not a prostitute, she is having a bath (or will be once I complete the scenery). It' just that Poser does clothes so badly and skin so nicely a litle bit of flesh can realy change the image (honest!) Thanks angola