Okay, I've read both threads and: 1) There is nothing necessarily nefarious In Eon's use of the term data. Technically speaking, when you submit an image you are not sending an image- you are sending image data. Eon is merely being precise. 2) I was unable to find anything in the submission agreement or their site that stipulated you must sent a scene file or even that they will ask for one. But if they do request one there is nothing to prevent your refusal. In any case, this agreement quite clearly applies only to the original image data submission. Although obviously related, scene data and image data are substantially different things- a bitmap file is not a scene file. As no agreements apply to the scene file any concerns about the models, etc they may incorporate are irrelevant. 3) The other thread states "E-on Software claims this transfer of creator rights for FOREVER!!! It is theirs PERMANENTLY. They can even block the creator from ever using or reselling their own model for forever!!" There is nothing in the agreement that grants Eon exclusive rights so they cannot block the creator from continuing to use the image as s/he sees fit or granting future limited rights to others. Granting rights to another party is not the same things as transferring these rights. 4) Contrary to other opinions I think it is quite appropriate for Zstrike to raise this issue here. Not everyone reads agreements even though they should so this serves as a warning for those who may be concerned about such things. It is akin to warning a young child to pay attention to traffic lights when crossing a traffic intersection. Doing so does not disparage the manufacturers of such lights. 5) Vue's quality or lack of quality as a program has nothing to do with this issue. While some people may indeed feel that Vue is not that great it requires an incredible leap of logic to conclude that they also feel a need to attack the product or its company. In fact, Zstrike began his post by calling Vue a "great program". Introducing such idle conjecture does little to clarify the subject at hand. As it happens, I prefer Bryce to Vue. I think in some ways Vue offers superior rendering for certain types of imagery, primarily naturalistic scenery. But for my work I prefer the edgier look of Bryce renders. People often ask my opinion of various programs and their suitability. Even though I use Bryce, I have recommended Vue when it seemed more appropriate to their style. Bryce and Vue are tools and nothing else. We already have more than enough religions. 6) Basically, this agreement only achieves two things. Firstly, it provides Eon with some small degree of legal protection necessary if they are to publicly display imagery they have not created themselves. I doubt that anyone would find fault with that. Secondly, it allows Eon to use submitted imagery (and imagery only) in any way they wish without further required permissions or payments. If you later decide you hate your image and want it to disappear from the face of the earth, too bad. Eon may continue to use it. For advertising purposes they could create a collage of submitted images. They could use your image on their product packaging or in their manuals without paying you. They could decide to sell an image compilation via cd or book without paying you and you could do little about it. Personally, I think this is a little bit cheesy. But understand that just because Eon has the right to use your image without further compensation it does not mean that they will. Unless you are an Eon employee responsible for such matters it is absurd to say what Eon will or will not do, what they will or will not think. 7) So what does this mean to me? I am not being coerced to submit an image so there is no cause for personal concern. Having read recent announcements I am very interested in a closer look at Vue 4 when it is released. However, based upon this thread I will want a thorough reading of its license agreement first. ps I am not a lawyer either. But I spent quite a few years as a commercial property insurance underwriter. Insurance policies tend to be huge, convoluted legal contracts so I became quite familiar with legalese and the ramifications of agreements. Of course, that does not make me right .