Sweet, thanks for the info Anton. Never new that about IBL's (mind you I never really understood them to start with even though I use them all the time) so hopefully I can now take this newfound knowledge and use it to some advantage. I've played with the lighting a fair bit but this whole IBL and AO thing is new to me as I only upgraded to P6 recently to get the P7 upgrade free. (rant) Which BTW I was a bit p-eed off about since when I bought P5, P6 came out about three months later with no upgrade specials, and then they go and offer P5 for free and then give you the bonus deal of upgrading to P6 and then give you a free upgrade to P7 for nix... Oh well, at least I went from P5 to P7 for the price of one upgrade after paying full price for P5... could be worse... but then again why the heck is anyone still using P4 or PP when P5 was offered free and for the price of one upgrade they could be using the latest version... not trying to open a can of worms here because maybe I misunderstood how that worked, but if I understand correctly, either I'm mental or people that are using way out of date versions of poser are... again, sorry I'm, a little bit drunk at the mo' but I've never really understood the whole "I'm proud of using an out of date program that can't really compete with the latest version but looks better than half the crap people are putting out with the latest version so I must be a better artist" thing. If what you're doing on an out of date program is so wonderful, imagine the wonderful things you could create with the latest tools. (/rant) I just know I'm gonna regret that in the morning.... Happy ANZAC Day to all the Aussies and Kiwis out there! EDIT: bugger, my rant tags didn't work....