I honestly hope that no one is offended by this thread because I am expressing my feelings about V4 Body Morphs for clothes boots/shoes etc. I need to get this out of my system because I do believe that there is a bias and perhaps a prejudice going on with some artists who make really excellent clothes for V3 and V4 but exclude the V3/V4 muscular morphs from their products because of a personal opinion about what they think womens clothes and appearance should be, or because or so they say, that in adding all the FBM morphs to the product will increase the overall filesize and make it difficult to manage or download.

In respect of what looks good when muscular morphs are used with V3/V4 clothing packages, this really should be a choice given to the buyer. The artist should strive to be fair and trust their buyers wisdom and should make the muscular morphing options available as they do with morphs such as "Amazon ect."
Since DAZ has recently released V4 FBM muscular morphs it is not only logical but sensible to include them in a product and making it a complete item and useful to everyone.
Please note this: There are many glamorous female body builders, and some are extreemly beautiful believe me, who wear similar types of clothing and shoes etc. that are found here in Rosity's 3D store, and these ladies would be very offended with the notion that they "Dont look good in these types of clothes because they are muscular!"

About the filesize of the package and this is my opinion about it. Honestly it seems nonsense tome to say that filesize makes a product impractical! There are V3/V4 clothing packages in other stores and these inlude the full range of V4/V3 FBM muscular morphs, I know because I have bought them. If the merchant is so concerned about the filesize/performance and the cost then why not make the added morphs available separately as an add-on package extra? 

I am making these suggestions in the hope that the wonderful artists here will in the future include the V4 muscular body morphs with their garments. Obviously some things would not be right for muscular morphs but I think you get my drift I hope so anyway!

To sum it up, artists, please give your buyers a real choice and let them decide if they want to use the muscularity morphs or not with clothing but PLEASE INCLUDE THE FBM MORPHS!

I will probably get some useless debate with this or maybe nothing at all!

For people who agree with me please give me some support its the only way to make the artists add FBM morphs to their V3/V4 products! Let them know your out there. DAZ responded!

Don't the DAZ original clothing contain the base FBMs? Other venders I don't think should be forced to use them unless it works for their product. Wardrobe Wizard does an excellent job custom fitting clothing to the figure, you can morph V4 any old crazy way you want, even combine morphs, WW will fit the clothing. No problems. ^^ bB

I agree with many of your points.  I use the muscle morphs quite a bit with Vittorio 4 and I'm quite pleased with the results and the extra options to give more realism to the over all effect but.... folks are only going to include morphs that are the most commonly used.  You can always create a new cr2 with all the morphs installed and then use Morph Magic or other programs to update the clothing cr2's with that morph info if you wish.  It's time consuming and it's a pain in the rear but I'm afraid you won't get much sympathy from most folks.  Most folks like either natural gals or that starved model look, which I detest. 

It will be interesting to see who posts here about this subject!!

You certainly have a point.

But there's also this: not every content provider has all the morph packages for the figure. For example, I do have the V4 bundle, but I don't have her muscularity morphs. So the clothes I make for V4 will have the morphs that come with V4, but not the muscularity morphs.
When I make clothing for V3, all morphs that come with the standard V3 morph packs (which I have) will be included in the clothing, if they make sense, that is. I don't put in spandex morphs, and if I make a set of armor it won't include nipple morphs, for example.
And I also won't include International Beauties morphs, since I don't have that morph pack.

But I agree that commercial clothes should have morphs to match all sensible FBMs.

Morphs take up space. But morph data are text data that compress very well. Textures take up more space.
I'd rather have a clothing item with more morphs and less texture maps, it's easy to fiddle with materials in the material room (which I do anyway).

Another thing that can be irritating: morphs in clothes that match the character morphs, but are named differently. It's a pain to dial the correct settings by hand, especially when the character has dozens of morph settings. If (for example) the TummyOut morph (internal name PBMTummyOut) of V4 is named TummyOut (PBMTummyOut) in the clothes, it's easy to have a Python script copy the settings over to the clothing.

That's also the reason I prefer splitting morph injection from morph dial setting in two pose files, that way the user can apply the morph dial setting pose to the clothing.

@svdl

quote "Another thing that can be irritating: morphs in clothes that match the character morphs, but are named differently."

Oh yes I forgot to mention that but thats absolutely right.

I know that there are excellent packages out there such as wardrobe wizard but its very time consuming.

The point I would like to add is that just as there are clothes that can be bought for different size people, excluding the morphs in so many wonderful packages that are sold here seems a bit unfair and 'not complete' and is also restrictive to people who want to use the clothes with muscular women.

@RAMWolf

quote:  "It's time consuming and it's a pain in the rear but I'm afraid you won't get much sympathy from most folks.  Most folks like either natural gals or that starved model look, which I detest."

Also true and that is why I am trying hard to ask artists to include the morphs because they should know that there really are a lot of people out there who would buy their packages with the FBM morphs and probably they do not because the morphs are missing but I take your point and you are right. Thanks for helping with your comment.

Extra Note to Artists:

If only our amazing artists would simply bite the bullet and add the musclar morphs as a standard thing to their V3/V4 clothing packages obviously where suitable, and leave the rest to the cash register.

You would also be amazed to know that many fans of muscular women are either too nervous or shy to make any comment about this subject and because they unfortunately say nothing, you infer that they are not out there at all but you would be mistaken, there are plenty of male fans of glamorous muscular ladies and that doesn't make them wimps.

Wouldnt it be nice if we could just inject the morphs that we need into the clothing? :)

Wouldn't be an impossibility I don't think.   As long as the channels are all present and the internal names are there wouldn't that work??  Point the injectors to the clothing item, double click, wait a minute and there you go? 

One of the ideas I'm playing with:

• making a limited number of "real" morphs, with actual deltas,
• and creating most of the character matching morphs as combinations of the "real" morphs. 

The character matching morphs then would not have memory hogging morph deltas by themselves, they'd only be valueparms that control the dozen or so "real" morphs. Resulting in a lightweight figure which is very versatile.

Actually, V4 uses this technique, the expression morphs are not "real" morphs, they use combinations of eye, nose and mouth morphs.

Most people only care if there are "Big Boob" morphs, LOL!

a. The muscular morphs only just came out so most people wouldn't have had them before anything that made it to the store was released. b. The magnet sets that help the clothing creators with getting the morphs into the clothes haven't updated the sets. c. They only include a few morphs normally since the files become unmanageable with all of them. d. They would have to charge a lot more to get their time investment back. Just pointing out a few things to think about that I have heard from various merchants.

Quote - I honestly hope that no one is offended by this thread because I am expressing my feelings about V4 Body Morphs for clothes boots/shoes etc. I need to get this out of my system because I do believe that there is a bias and perhaps a prejudice going on with some artists who make really excellent clothes for V3 and V4 but exclude the V3/V4 muscular morphs from their products because of a personal opinion about what they think womens clothes and appearance should be, or because or so they say, that in adding all the FBM morphs to the product will increase the overall filesize and make it difficult to manage or download.
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To sum it up, artists, please give your buyers a real choice and let them decide if they want to use the muscularity morphs or not with clothing but PLEASE INCLUDE THE FBM MORPHS!

I totally agree with you if it comes to including the Muscle Morphs. It is something that should be done and it is something that is very useful to me.
Since these morphs are relative new it won't be done in a week tho.
Maybe some poll about the user preferences would help the vendors in deciding which morphs to include.
The suggestion to include selected morphs by injecting them is of course the best solution.

Out of personal taste I often prefer to morph a woman more muscular than what todays real world average women looks like.
However, overly muscular women look just as unesthetic to me like the extreme skinny ones or those who are "natural". Same with men...
Field and track athletes and gymnasts have often the right shape that is a mix between functionality, combat value (or survivability under natural conditions) and retaining their gender specific attributes.

@Ghostofmacbeth

Magnets are very time consuming and your point that the Muscular Body Morphs have only recently come out is taken. Some artists do not even have them yet I understand that, but I was referring to the new products for V3/V4. I also suggested that artists could make separate add-on packs at an additional charge if need be and as you reiterate, some mechants use this point about the extra cost and I will also add that this is an excuse to avoid using the morphs at all. One need only look at other sites where clothing packages have the FULL FBM morphs included. Thanks for your comment.

I want to repeat once again that what I am asking of artists/merchants is to make the muscular FBM body morphs standard practice in their packages but obviously where it is appropriate, common sense dictates that and then the buyer gets a fair and complete choice and is allowed to decide whether to use the morphs or not.
As I said earlier:

If only our amazing artists would simply bite the bullet and add the musclar morphs as a standard to their V3/V4 clothing packages obviously where suitable, and leave the rest to the cash register.