thanks, bill, for the tutorial. it reminds me of what kupa or colin told me many years ago about a similar technique - put a fisheye camera where the main figure should be, render that, then use it as a reflection map. this was in the days of P3, when things were much simpler. am I correct in assuming that, in the absence of any other light source, the P7 IBL light doesn't allow materials to exhibit optical properties such as reflection, refraction, transparency, shadows, et al.? in olivier's tutorial on IBL, he mentions that they don't produce shadows (hence the need for AO), but I didn't see if he mentioned the other properties.