Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: I need data, from You.

Un_authorized opened this issue on Jul 22, 2007 · 36 posts


3Dsmacker posted Mon, 23 July 2007 at 8:03 PM

Alright! Now you're cooking with fire!  From your first post it wasn't clear if we were dealing with Ted Mack's Amateur Hour or something more substantial.  Clearly, you are a professional, and an ambitious one at that. More power to you!

Further food for thought of the blue sky variety.

One of the problems I think the 3d art world has is the disparity between the objects available in the real world and the objects available in the 3D world. Now I don't think we will ever have a one to one correspondence (or even know if that would be worthwhile), but I do believe that widening the base of objects available to the artist would do a lot for originality of subject matter. I cringe every time I see a new "kit" of objects come out. I.e., a kit of a new figure with a few new clothes, a few new props,and a few new buildings. I cringe because I know that very shortly I will see hundreds of variations on this kit in the galleries until its done to death and even beyond.

Now while I also understand that some of this repetition is just people liking the subject matter, and that being a monomaniac fanboy or fangirl is part of many artists developement, I still think that some of the repetition is due to the restriction of the number of objects available at the base of the creation chain.  I believe this has to have an automatic way of causing artistists to focus of on a smaller set of themes and materials than they might have. Anything we can do to facilitate a wider base is to the good.

Now the good thing is that there are a lot of objects already out there. It is the communication problems that are causing the base of objects to seem smaller than it is. Therefore, one of the things I believe is needed the most is to leverage the objects that are already available by increasing the artist's ability to become aware of them. I now know that we already have databases of objects out there. But some of the posts I've seen in this thread tell me that even some of the veterans are not aware of some of them. And the fact that the databases give different results to the same queries tells me that the databases themselves are not as comprephensive as they might be. (one of them even seems to display a lot of TurboSquid stuff). 

So this still leaves us with objects out there that are still spread all over the 400 (soon to be 401) websites. Clearly, there is still a lot of work to be done on awareness-through-databases.

We need to (in no particular order):

1.) overcome the decentralization. The internet was specifically invented for the purpose of fostering redundancy over many nodes. That is what it does well. To overcome becoming another needle in a very large haystack, the proposed site should have a number of things that make it so good that it can not possibly be ignored. It occurs to me that Renderosity has already achieved that status. When I was a complete newbie to 3D art, Rendo was the first site that I became aware of by not even trying especially hard.
 
2.) Having gotten the eyeballs, there should be on one page a collected a list of the object databases already in existence. (yes, I've seen pages like that all over the place. And that isthe problem. All over the place. The eyeballs have to be there before any such page of databases can become really useful.

3.) participate in helping those existing databases get better. This may be a hard thing to do, and not just because it may be an effort for us. In some organizations there can be an attitude of "Not Invented Here" (NIH).  Nothing from outside - even free help - is considered worthwhile. And there are employees in some organizations who simply don't want outside amateurs making more work for them. One thought I had was that of keeping a spreadsheet of what I
encountered whenever I went on a prop hunt, and then sending that spreadsheet onto one or more of the databasers after I had found my prop.  I guess it would depend on the enthusiasm or agenda of the databaser. We should ask them if they would like any help of so amateur a nature.

4.) Increase and strengthen the feed back loop between the needers of objects and the makers of objects. I would say that we probably have a lot informal loops like that now. And I've speculated on whether the databasers are forwarding their zero-result search terms to any vendors for consideraton. But the more of a central clearing house we can make of those feedback loops, the more efficient the process will become, and the less likely it will be for a
creators time to be wasted. I have a suspicion that if vendors could really penenitrate the 401 sites and thereby really know what their customers wanted, we'd see alot more different kinds of objects created.

5.) Prevent the disappearance of objects because of their obscurity. This is part of the communication thing as well. Sometimes a perfectly good object disappears because its not listed on any database and is just on one of the 401 sites. But its also possible it is just an object that isn't used very often. I wonder if a percentage of the resources extremely popular objects provide might be used to keep some less popular objects in existence.  Maybe we could have a central place where they are kept off line until a request is received to load it up again.  Food for thought.

6.) not let databases get out of date. Once we have a database, or become aware of existing databases, we should continue to feed them. The more we put automatic and institutional means in place to accomplish this, the less likely a database will become merely historical.

A consideration for the future.

It seems to me that what we have so far been talking about - megaFAQS, Tutorials, news, forums, possibily storing freebies or long-tail items, galleries, shopping guides, and databases - adds up to just one thing: the mitosis of a new 3D community. Lets be frank and acknowledge that possibily up front. Its probably one of the reasons there will be some resistence. No one wants to see the efforts of their community get diluted by the formation of yet another community.  No one sets out to deliberately create a new community (unless, of course, theres some kind of massive muckup that really does sunder a  community).  One sets out to do something different, original, and useful - and "the routinization of charisma" works its magic over time.  This is not neccessarily a bad thing. Starting something new allows for a new DNA to be created for a new entity (I wonder if Runtime-DNA gots its name from that idea).

The idea of allowing more for non-English speakers is a perfect example of a new DNA. Sometimes estabished entities have too much of a capital investment in its founding ways of doing things that it takes a new entity to fill a void.

The only other thing I want to add in this regard is a caution. "The routinization of charisma" has its bad side as well as its good side. The badness tends to fall on the early members of the community who mistake a passion for a religion. They are the one's who are most hurt when a community begins its drift from being a community to being a business.  People who thought they had become members of an actual community, are later disappointed to find that they have instead become customers of a business. It happens all the time, and not just in the 3D art world. I would caution volunteers about how much of themselves they give to a new effort if their names are not on any of the ownership papers. But I am not casting aspersions on Un_authorized by mentioning this fact. I'm sure Un-authorized is in it for the exiliaration and challenge of doing something new and useful. Its just that there are people who who deliberately set themselves up to be exploited without realizing it. And that's a temptation that's hard to resist.

Now for a happier future thought: the baby boom generation is now in the process of heading for retirement. Yes, that might put the Social Sercurity System out of business and cause other problems, but there is at least one silver lining: a large population is going to suddenly find itself with a lot of free time on its hands.  I have no doubt that some that will spill over into 3D art in a big way.  A lot of you 3D veterans may suddenly find yourselves in demand as private tutors of 3D art.  And the kind of website Un_authorized wants to build may actually get a lot of wind in its sails without too much effort.

Immediate Recommendation:

Un_authorized, as soon as you have your site ready to go live, I suggest that your first page be a listing of all the databases available to date. And possiblly also a comprehensive list of all websites offering freebies. I know that there are a lot of pages out there that have this, but doing this may  give you a goodly number of eyeballs from the get go, and especially if the page gains a reputation for being comprehensive enough.   

Less Immediate Recommendation:

If you are going to allow more help for non-English speakers, then I suggest you liberally pepper your pages with buttons that link to BabelFish.  In fact, I suggest you find a way for the various speakers to identify what language they are using so that the linker to BabelFish will have that information when he or she goes there.  Its nice to allow more for non-English speakers, but you also have to watch out for being side-tracked by particular language.  Churches run into this problem all the time.