jjroland, you are my hero! I've tried to express several times, that we're attempting to make hyper-realistic renders that put actual photos to shame. Never seemed to say it the right way. I'll plead guilty to having some stupidly shiny floors in some renders. If the RL floors can't be squeaky-clean, the digital ones can. Dust bunnies are hard to make in pixels! (Anyone seen a PS Dust Bunnie brush out there?) Ever sit down and look at your family photo album, and critique it? hmm.. lighting is too flat.. no reflections in the eyes... skin doesn't look real.. Uncle Bob's toupee doesn't look right.. Rover's eyes make him look like a hound from hades... At the other end of the spectrum, watch some films with really eye-popping visuals..the old black&white ones like Casa Blanca or Citizen Kane, and try to apply real physics. To paraphrase James Wong Howe, the heck with source-lighting, just make it look good.