thefixer opened this issue on Aug 07, 2007 · 430 posts
Tirjasdyn posted Fri, 17 August 2007 at 10:42 AM
It's only a deal if you belong to the platinum club...I haven't for a long time and don't plan to go back. Frankly I stopped being impressed with Daz Studio pretty quick and was completely disillusioned with the Bryce 6 release. I don't like Daz's "We'll get it right eventually" stance. That's why I've moved from Bryce to Vue and jumped on Shade when it was offered. I've also recently purchased Manga Studio. With EF I've come to expect quality models and software options. I know people feel differently but that's my take on it. Daz stopped living up to expectations a long time ago for me and I don't have faith that they'll do right by me on a software stance.
Modeling tools are a personal thing imo...Shade works for me...others find other ways of modeling better. My sister prefers 3ds max. I never grokked lightwave...I loved Maya but it was out of my reach after school until recently and now I've moved on.
The point was to compare apples to apples. I managed to get myself into the pro shade upgrade structure a year ago...I'm pretty happy with that. As for poser...the sheer joy of fiddling with poser is what I like about it that I never got with Studio. I know there are a lot of folks who won't want to put in the effort (the mythos of Make Art goes pretty deep even if people don't realize that's what they are saying). That's their choice.
On point of Poser Pro. I don't need it. When I eventually get a machine that can take advantage of those features...then I'll probably upgrade...but my computer is over a year old and came out just before the dual core standards and 64bit os craze....so maybe in a couple of years.
Currently all, with all the plugings besides fbx, Daz Studio cost's 124.97...I got Poser for 110.99. And still Studio doesn't offer all of what poser has. EF offers side grades to all their products which don't cancel out the upgrades on the cerial number. I can't get that with Daz.
Shade Pro which is a professional level product in Japan costs quite a bit more than Carrara Pro at Daz. However Shade 8.5 already supports Poser 7 and UB and 64 bit. When you buy Shade you get the UB and the 32 bit and 64 versions of Shade included. Daz is really pushing Carrara's render capabilites over it's modeling...Carrara offers(there is an expanded list of what all these mean on the daz site.:
Polygonal Modeling
But then Daz want's you to buy their models.
Shade pro modeling features are as follows(this is the expanded list from the datasheet):
Curved Surfaces X X
Revolve Object X X
Bevel Modeling X X
Polygon Mesh X X
Boolean Modeling X X
Meta Mesh X X
Regular Polyhedron X X
Arc X X
Spiral Line X X
TextEffector X X
Lattice Deformer X X
Twist Deformer X X
Curved Surface Transformer X X
Magnet Tool X
Ball Joint X
Bone & Skin X X
Auto Smoothing/ Interpolate X
MagicalSketch 2 X
Object Alignment / Arrangement X
Line Fit X
RoomPlanner X
Cut/Connect Curves X X
Display Normal Line X X
Display Start of Line Object X X
Eye Target Sets Focal Length X X
Link Object (Master Object) X X
Mesh Editing X X
Lasso / Trace Selection
The other features of Shade are simularly expanded over Carrara Pro.
Now Carrara 9 promises to include new features...however it looks as if Daz is going through with their promise to intergrate Carrara and Bryce. Ie the Ocean primitave which has been in Bryce since at least version 4 perhaps version 3... if not earlier. I don't have interest in that...I can do water in Shade...or since I'm a Vue customer....in Vue...or even in Poser or I can just load up my trusty Bryce 5 and have a go...not that ga ga over it. Carrara can get some of Poser 6's features imported...but no work on if they are going to up that to 7 like Shade and Vue and other high end apps.
Ocean Primitive (Original Forum Page 1) See Above
Non-Linear Animation (Original Forum Page 13) This is perhaps the most interesting feature...but for me not a grabber...I do stills not animation.
Dynamic Hair (Original Forum Page 14) Coming in Shade 9..available in Poser which can be imported into Vue or Shade already.
Symmetrical Modeling (Original Forum Page 19) Already available in Shade.
Direct X Import/Export, Open GL Improvements, More Hair (Original Forum Page 23) again available in Shade
Displacement Modeling (Original Forum Page 32) Nifty...this is what you can do in in Poser but probably not as well (we won't know till it comes out) Shade 9 does not list this...other implementations on a pro level are Mud Box and ZBrush...
Full DAZ Studio Content Support & Improved Content Browser (Original Forum Page 42) Shug...not a sale point for me.
Rigid Body Simulation (Original Forum Page 51) This looks like fancy way of saying Physics. Shade has been concentrating on it's particle physics more...but again...I'm not an animator.
Depth of Field Improvements (Original Forum Page 60)....shrug...everyone works on this and has this...
Shadow Bias (Original Forum Page 74) Called something different in Shade but already included.
In-Scattering (Original Forum Page 79) That's a new term for in direct lighting...already available...I wonder if they got this from Bryce.
Landscape Wizard(Original Forum Page 97) I'm sorry but I snorted my milk here...IT'S A MAKE ART BUTTON!!!!! lol It looks lifted from Bryce. Shrug...I'm not against it...in landscape software it's actually very useful to have a good starting point when you are a beginner.
Euler Angles For Rotations(Original Forum Part 2 Page 10)...another way to move objects...sure why not? They also show hair being used for grass...I use the Poser hair room primairly for grass...alot of people do this....
Conforming (Original Forum Part 2 Page 16) Um..okay great for putting clothes on in Carrara I guess.
RENDER TIME DISPLACEMENT ON TERRAINS (Original Forum Part 2 Page 19) K this doesn't really sound that different...or that spiffy from other programs that use displacement. I'd have to see it in action to get the idea I guess.
Carrara looks like a step into Daz's uber app ideal. It's a modeler...that compares well with Shade in a lot of areas but they are starting to combine Studio and Bryce into it. I agree It's a good way to start for the 300$ pro version...I don't know that the 80 version is really worth it by comparison...
Still Daz relies on Poser to make models though...no iffs about it...you still can't make a model posable with out it. I don't see that changed in Carrara.
Shade has it's own rigging system...so does Poser...Vue can use Posers. Until Daz either comes up with their own rigging system (or just pay for Poser SDK...but then EF won't pay for for theirs so oh well on that score(don't give me the crap that the Daz SDK is free..it's not and you only get a partial refund if you sell through Daz's store for a certain amount of time)) they will still be catering to poser...once they pass that hurdle I believe that they will finish their break away. But who really knows, except for Steve...and he has trouble forming words on a regular basis(no it's not kind).
The reality is that Daz is creating a project that is just as cobbled together as Poser is. Will it work? We'll see...I'm not that impressed but others will be..others will defect to high end apps or to the medium end of EF.
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