pjz, your price comments for Cinema are noted....

Package for Cinema4D.................
CINEMA 4D $895.00
Advanced Render $595.00
Dynamics $395.00
Hair (Pre-order) $395.00
MOCCA (includes cloth) $595.00
NET Render $395.00
Sketch and Toon $595.00
total $3,865.00 was my initial itemized list

So, take out Toon and Dynamics and the total is  $2895

However, getting the XL version plus hair is $2195+$395 = $2590 which is below the Max $3500 and XSI $3000 price point (leaving out the current $1000 sale for XSI). So I wish I could edit my initial post in this thread and amend somewhat my pricing there. Oh well.

I don't know if that is a level playing field or not, however, because I actually personally DO require a first-rate toon function. I notice with Max that the plugin "FinalToon" is balyhooed, so I wonder how these three apps, XSI, Max and Cinema compare -- without plugin -- for toon render. Wolf, are you doing those comix toon renders in another thread WITH or WITHOUT the toon module for Cinema?

My other issues with Cinema are the hair and cloth modules, which are very important to me. Max and XSI include Syflex and ShaveAndAHaircut, which are very fine. Can the Cinema people SOBERLY make a comparison of their cloth and hair tools to those in XSI and Max?

::::: Opera :::::