Ok, if we can't be civil, the learning can end, and I can lock it.  Matter of fact, one more argumentative statement from either direction, it's locked, and I mean it.  This is a VERY informative thread, and I will use my right and privelege as a moderator to lock this thread and delete the arguments.  I've read it, and there are times when BOTH of you are right and when BOTH of you are wrong.  Quit it.

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Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad.