I take averyones point (maybe i should go into politics?) perhaps there could be a system involving the 1 off use of a pop3 account for the purpose of joining, and the option to use an http account thereafter. On a slight tangent, in chat, the idea of using cookies was raised, I believe r'rosity uses cookies extensively at the mo - maybe a 'tainted' cookie could be given to a banned user to prevent re-application? Now i appreciate that this wouldnt stop the determined (ab)user but it would defeat most of the brain-dead teens who have hijacked chat on so many occasions recently - who, if they are determined pirates - will have caches full of cookies anyway. I appreciate this will raise simmilar objections to the 'pop3 mail only' option - but i REALLY like renderosity and hate to see it being spoiled by cheats and timewasters, and equally think that it's a bit of an imposition to ask a mod at a graphics forum to spend all their time chasing criminals.