I recently sent some shots to get developed/printed in black and white - and it seemed the black and white high contrast areas bled green on the transition so things like high contrast grass had a green tinge (you might remember me commenting on this a few weeks ago) - i put it down to bad print quality and the inks bleeding or being slightly "missplaced" on the print. Anyway, i was talking to a photograper mate recently and he recommended a printshop which doesnt "print" digital photos, but "develops" them.  Is there a difference and is one reccommended over the other? Anyone have any experience with this?

I see that inshaala remembered that he,

recently sent some shots to get developed/printed in black and white

IIRC, you were thinking of having BonusPrint reprint those images. 

How did that work out? 

--
Martin

Yeah - i phoned them up and they said they were sending them - even gave me a date of dispatch. So they should have been here about 2-3 weeks ago. Havent seen them - in the end i didnt need all of them reprinted, just the bad cases (ie high contrast in small area images) so the sales on the xmas stall went fine.  I've been a bit busy and at those quiet times when i should have followed up, too lazy to phone them and sort it out.

Attached Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/01/AR2005060102026.html

Attached Link: http://flyingsamphoto.com/digital-photo-guide-article-print-or-develop.shtml

get an epson 2400 and print your own.

I use an online printer(developer) or a local store with Fuji machines.  The images are developed on Fuji film  papers, not printed with ink.   

Yeah - i just took a look at Bonusprint and my prints a bit further - they use Kodak laser exposure machines, so it isnt an ink problem.  Really strange - probably misaligned something or other.  I am looking at printers, but cant really justify the cost of a decent one able to print 8x12".  Maybe when i actually make money from selling prints/commissions will i consider it - further learning thus will ensue on colour profiles etc. (I'm trying to get my head round adjusting my colour profile to the KODAK EDGE profile Bonusprint told me to use - although even then the blacks look better than they do on the matching print - headache or what?!)

I see that inshaala is still working on getting the best quality from BonusPrint,

KODAK EDGE profile Bonusprint told me to use

'told' as in spoken or from their web page? 

From the BonusPrint.com ... "Digital Prints" -> "Quality" web page ...

Output Profile for Kodak Edge Gloss Paper.

Profile Usage Instructions from "Cathy's Profiles"

In "Cathy's Profiles", I see these words ...

Working Spaces ... RGB: you can use sRGB, AdobeRGB or ColorMatch RGB

I'm not sure that you need to convert your images to the Kodak Edge profile ...
In fact, I'm sure that you shouldn't do that.  That having been said, I will
appreciate hearing [reading] other opinions. 

inshaala also said,

the blacks look better than they do on the matching print - headache or what?!

I guess that you mean ... look better on my monitor than ...

That could be due to how your monitor is callibrated -- one way to be sure
about your monitor calibration is to use a ColorVision Spyder2express. 
About $65 to $80.  HTH but YMMV ... (sly grin). 

--
Martin

I noticed that inshaala mentioned that he is,

looking at printers, ... [and wants a] decent one able to print 8x12

Don't forget that in the USA, legal size paper is 8.5" x 14".  I would expect
that any printer that could handle Legal size could also handle 8" x 12". 

BTW, is 8" x 12" the same size as A4? 

I own a Canon PIXMA IP5000 ... it can print

Paper Sizes: Credit Card (2.13" x 3.39"), 4" x 6", 5" x 7",
                     Letter (8.5" x 11"), Legal (8.5" x 14"), U.S. #10 Envelopes

Ink system has 5 tanks: CMYK and Photo Black

Resolution: CMY and Photo Black (dye): 9600 x 2400 dpi
                    Black (pigment): 600 x 600 dpi

When it was available, it cost $175

The curent equivalent printer would be the Canon Pixma IP4500 (it has the
same ink system and other specifications as my IP5000) about $130. 

If you wanted to step up to a professional printer, you could consider the
Canon PIXMA Pro9000 which offers ...

Resolution and ink: 4800 x 2400 dpi, 8-color dye ink system;

Paper: 4"x 6", 4"x 8", 5"x 7", 8"x 10", 13"x 19", Letter, Legal, U.S. #10 Envelopes

... list price about $500 ... but seen on the web as low as $527. 

--
Martin

When MGD wrote,

Canon PIXMA Pro9000

... list price about $500 ... but seen on the web as low as $527. 

I really meant to say ...

Canon PIXMA Pro9000

... list price about $500 ... but seen on the web as low as $427. 

Sorry, my bad. 

--
Martin

When MGD wrote, >"I really meant to say ... " and "Sorry, my bad." ... he should really decide wether he wants to speak in first or third person. ;']

I see that TwoPynts, the grammarian, offered some valid observations about
my writing style. 

Other than, "you're write", what can I say?  

--
Martin

p.s. Possibly there was a conflict and/or confusion between MGD (the writer)
and MGD (the editor). 

That says it all Martin. ;'P

I'm well aware that my monitor needs proper calibration - although people mentioned that the shots i upload look fine and i have seen them on other screens and they look ok (so it cant be as bad as the prints suggest) - but with using colour profiles to change the colour within photoshop, a few layers of screen adjustments both hardware and software, i would need a whole day, a lot of patience and the will to do it. All of which are a rarety for me these days when it comes to this sort of thing. I would also then have to probably run off some test prints at the shop, wait for them to arrive and then recalibrate to the print.

And like i said - i cant justify the cost of a decent printer:

This is the IP5000 you quoted as being in the $100-200 bracket... try this link for what i would be charged. 

And remember i am UK based where we have to deal with extortionate prices. Double the prices in this link for the Pro9000 and you get the $ price...

Sorry, your help is appreciated - but i just get really bitter when people quote $ price at me - and so my point can be made in its entirety the Spyder calibration software is in the UK around the $125 mark. Plus i think i got out of bed the wrong side this morning - christmas blues i think ;)

On a more constructive note - i am going to try Photobox.co.uk next and see how the prints come out - it was the website i got recommended by the guy who told me about developing rather than printing.

I note that inshaala said,

I am going to try Photobox.co.uk next

I took the liberty of checking the Photobox web site and found this information
on their Quality page,

It is important to note that the Fuji Frontier printers currently strip out
any embedded profiles in your images, so you should ensure that your
images are submitted in sRGB.

--
Martin

I saw that inshaala lamented about equipment costs by saying,

I am UK based where we have to deal with extortionate prices.

I checked the Canon UK web site and found that the Canon PIXMA IP4500
printer I mentioned has this listing ... 

PIXMA iP4500 *SRP Inc VAT: £ 79.00 (that is about £ 14 more than the US SRP)

Although the Canon PIXMA Pro9500 is listed on their web site, it is too bad
that they don't show a price. 

--
Martin

when i print out my images at A4 size, i use my epson R800 which produces superb quality, but when i want to go as large as  A2 size or more (which i nomally sell) i use Loxley Roes. Belive me when i say they are cheap but most importantly, the quality is 100% fantastic.

When I saw that ultimatemale was enthusiastic about,

Loxley Roes ... [who are] cheap but most importantly, the quality is 100% fantastic

I decided to take a look and do some comparison shopping. 

Too bad that the Loxley Colour web site wouldn't let me register because it
wouldn't recognize an address in the USA. 

--
Martin

hrm - the Canon range isnt as expensive as i first thought... i was thinking £2-300 for a good quality photo printer was normal.  Will have to see what the IP5300/5000 prints like, seem like decent printers for the price.

Sorry i was a bit annoyed earlier - i had to deal with christmas lights and the inevitable check-each-one-for-the-fault-until-you-get-it-right-and-they-all-light-up scenario. Bah humbug!

hrm - actually thinking about that the IP5300 is around the £100 mark whereas the ip5000 is £350!...  the 5300 is more in my price range.

I see that inshaala said,

Will have to see what the IP5300/5000 prints like

Well, you know one way to see the print quality of the PIXMA IP5000 (hint). 

In addition, I was amused when I saw that inshaala,

had to deal with christmas lights and the inevitable
check-each-one-for-the-fault-until-you-get-it-right-and-they-all-light-up
scenario. Bah humbug!

Be sure to take a reference image for next year.  LOL

Cheers, and have a Single Malt Scotch for me. 

--
Martin

My apologizies for not making it clear that Loxley Roes is actually situated in scotland. It takes about 2, 3 or 4 working days to send me the prints in London.

I want to point out some additional good features of the Canon iP4500 [USA]
or Canon iP4500 [UK] printers.  The same points also apply equally to the
Canon iP5000 [USA] printer.

1. From an ink standpoint these printers are, in effect, 2 printers:

(a) Photo color with 4 dye based ink tanks (C, M, Y, K); with a print resolution
of 9600 x 2400 dpi and ink drop size of 1 pl (picoliter); 24ppm (17ppm for the
older iP5000). 

(b) Mono with a pigment based black with a print resolution of 600 x 600 dpi. 
Canon refers to this as 'laser-quality' printing; 31ppm (25ppm for the older
iP5000). 

IOW, these printers could take the place of a laser printer or B/W dot matrix
printer -- in adition to being a photo printer. 

1. These printers are designed with paper paths for 2 paper sources:
   Cassette and Automatic Sheet feeder -- selectable by software and/or
   fromt panel.  You could load the tray with plain paper and, at the same 
   time, load the ASF with photo paper, ... or label material, ... or whatever,
   depending on your workflow. 

2. Duplexing -- while probably not useful for photo printing, it would be
   useful for brochure printing, or general web research printing -- think of
   cutting your plain paper cost in half. 

--
Martin

p.s. I default my iP5000 to print in Greyscale (mono) unless I specifically
want color -- that saves the color ink tanks for photos. 

Attached Link: http://photocamel.com/forum/wedding-resources/23589-pro-image-labs.html