Thanks for the nice comments guys! Pnevai, if you want to clean someone's clock do it with a great image and great speed. I created this image in a half hour...that includes finding the models on the net and render time. I know Bryce can be dog slow but this went pretty quick. (Of course I did it on a dual Processor G4 500 with over half a gig ram) I did sorta ask for it with my little comment in the subject. But, the point I was trying to make was you can get really nice quality out of a inexpensive program. The stuff Lightwave produces is mindboggling...and I plan on buying it as soon as I can. That being said, I have seen images generated by Bryce that are breathtakingly beautiful...Clay's for example...and I've seen hacky images created by Lightwave that I can't even believe it's possible to create such amateur images with such a powerful program. It isn't the tools, but what you can do with the tools. Stephen