I have noticed by viewing pictures here in the gallerie section, that there is not given much credits for the stuff that is being used for creating a image.
Very often I see a very lovely image and would like to see which products are being used.
What about you guys and gals? are you wondering the same or is it just me?

Hugs Claudia

Well as far as I'm concerned I don't feel the need to credit anyone if I've paid for it, I've spent good money on it so why should I??
I understand they've worked hard to do whatever, but then they get the reward in the cash they get for it, what esle do you need!!

On the other hand if I've used free stuff or stuff a merchant has given me as a friend then I'll credit them in my images!!

i agree with the Fixer...I usually dont credit products I bought...I pay for it, then i review it...so I really dont feel the need.

Now if I am given a gift, or using free content, or doind the artwork as a promotional piece for the creator, of course I will credit.

I try to credit everything I didn't model myself - for my older gallery stuff, nearly everything.  I don't like to be credited for other people's work, and I'm not really fond of praising someone else for work they didn't do either.

Credits are optional.  I always try to credit freebies and gifts but anything else, I generally don't.

Besides which, it's easy enough to contact the artist if they used something you're interested in.

I totally agree with SamTherapy.

Quote - I try to credit everything I didn't model myself - for my older gallery stuff, nearly everything.  I don't like to be credited for other people's work, and I'm not really fond of praising someone else for work they didn't do either.

I guess I dont understand your point here..

Ok  everyone of you made your point very clear. If I want to know what product(s) are being used in a image, the only option is left,  to mail that person who created it........that would be a fulltime job then. 
Thanks anyway for your replies.

What isn't clear about it?  If I didn't do the pose, I don't want someone to tell me "awesome pose you did".  If I didn't do a beautiful model of a chair, then I don't want someone to tell me "you did a great job modeling and texturing that chair".  Etc etc.  I also don't like to praise (or criticise!) work that someone else didn't do, when viewing their work.

Quote - What isn't clear about it?  If I didn't do the pose, I don't want someone to tell me "awesome pose you did".  If I didn't do a beautiful model of a chair, then I don't want someone to tell me "you did a great job modeling and texturing that chair".  Etc etc.  I also don't like to praise (or criticise!) work that someone else didn't do, when viewing their work.

Who said it wasn't clear?

I credit freestuff and sometimes purchased stuff. for purchased stuff I don't really have a set rule for it, i just sometimes do and sometimes don't.
As for stuff I modeled myself, I always mention that in my image description, and I usually say what program I used to model it.

Quote - i agree with the Fixer...I usually dont credit products I bought...I pay for it, then i review it...so I really dont feel the need.

Now if I am given a gift, or using free content, or doind the artwork as a promotional piece for the creator, of course I will credit.

Ditto. But in addition to that the new credit system is a PITA to wade through. I used to give credits but when they switched to php in the galleries I gave up.  Now I just list thank those using plain text for the freebies and/or gifts.

^ What Acadia said.  With myself, when I'm telling stories in the pictures, I don't credit what  I modelled or textured any more than I do anyone else's.  99% of the time (except for my own models and such) I do NOT have a clue who did what!  It's that simple to me.  My libraries are organized so I can find stuff to use, NOT by who did what, as per how many MAKE their stuff.

If a piece merchandise or a freebie is of exceptional quality, or is a surprise to use, I mention it in the text.  Toshiyo's Flying Saucer for R-Lina was one that came to mind.  You can BLOW IT UP!  ZOMG!  An EXPLODING morph!  Damn, that REALLY rocked!

I digress. :lol:

Quote - Who said it wasn't clear?

Webster did...

I usually credit where I remember where I got it. I'm not always that good at crediting textures, but I like to when I can. I also think that the vendors can find out what images they are credited in, and I like to give my favorites kudos. About the only time I don't credit when I do know what I used is when the gallery software eats my image, and I'm too frustrated to enter it again. (It used to be that if you forgot to check the check buttons, or specify an advisory, it didn't remember anything you did.)

Quote - I totally agree with SamTherapy.

I think we'll get on just fine. :biggrin:

With over 18Gb!! of content in my runtimes do you really expect me to remember everyone who I've bought items from? Can't even find half of the stuff I've bought (I always know it's somewhere, but not always excactyl where), let alone remember who I've purchased it from. I paid the merchant and after that I don't owe them anything at all. They're not going to credit me for buying their stuff either.

I never give credit for content used in any of my images, but I do give credit for content used in my games..... BUT only if people have donated the items for the game. I do owe those people a mention at least, but if I've paid for the items, I don't owe them credits any longer.

If you're using Poser-type content in games, free or purchased but especially purchased, you're probably violating your user agreement - just about all that I've ever seen includes very specific "no redistribution, for renders only" language.

Nope I'm not violating any user agreement at all, do you really think that well know content creators like (formerly)E-Frontier, Faveral, Davorama, Cnoflek-gnorg, Deadhead and others would donate items, if I'm  violating the user agreement? I would be if I would distribute the actual mesh/3d objects, but I'm not. I'm only using renders and animations of the content in the game, which are all in one execatable file, nothing can accessed seperately. I'm not creating 3D games, but 2D/isometric like games with only rendered images.

I check for credits of my models because I like to see how they are used in people's art.  In fact thats one of the things I really like about 3d modeling:  my oil paintings hang on someone's walls and after the sale I don't get to see them, but 3d art gets new perspective from lots of other artists.  I like to see the things I work so much on as others imagine them too.  Plus, as I see how folks use the models I can tailor new ones to suit.

If something I used in the store here, I most give the credit if I can remember at once from whom this product was. If I have enough power, I take a look in the store from whom this product was but if I´m too tired...next time ;-)
I do this becourse I know that the vendors have their own top-list of "most credited vendors", so I do it for them. If a product is from another store, I don´t mention it here.
I think that we all know the latest fashion or characters from all urgent stores on web.
If someone wants to know what I have used, he/she can feel free to ask me. I´ll have a look on it than.

I don't post many images and where I leave credits for the artists is leaving feedback after a purchase and I've used the product. As far as the equipment use I have to say I think that could be a valid question at times, but then the gallery usually has a title like "Poser" or "Bryce" gallery . I use Lightwave to model my personally made poser content. The render would be Poser 6 or 7 unless I post in the Daz gallery and then I'm using Daz Studio or Bryce or even Carrara whatever version is current. Other than that I use Photo Shop or Paintshop Pro for textures and postwork. Thing about viewing images is you never know where the render is and the postwork begins unless they specify no postwork. Now come to think  about  it you're asking  this in a Poser forum. Either Poser or Vue most likely. I don't own Vue myself. I guess all that is required is that a program be used someplace in the construction of an image to qualify the image to be in a specific gallery. That's more about technique than programs I think. It doesn't make a lot of difference. I can "usually" see poser content was used though anyways. 

if you want to know what someone has used, ask them.
but i am with the fixer on this one.
plus trying to remember where something came from. mmmm

may not happen

Sinc eI am an utter incompetent at modeling, I do credit everyone.  This has the added advantage of bringing in the merchants and the creators of the freebies, who often comment.  This boots my spun glass ego and gives me a dull warm glow of achievement when I read their praise.

Besides, they need the boost too.

Quote - Well as far as I'm concerned I don't feel the need to credit anyone if I've paid for it, I've spent good money on it so why should I??

This could be the answer to your other question, about product reviews. When you credit a particular vendor, it's like giving them a visual review. Other people get to see what you made using that vendor's product - it goes on their image credit list.

I like to see credits so if I like it I can buy it.

Frankly my runtimes are so croweded and lots of people have very generic names for stuff I forget who produced it

I am very very bad at posting credits, just don't think about it or have forgotten the vendor but then I DO fill out reviews for the products I purchase after I have used them a bit. 

If ask I provide the info and will go back and add it to the image after the fact.   

You ran into a bit of a sore spot in the community without knowing it 76claudia2205, this subject comes up every once in a while. There were at one point a few merchnats who made it part of their EULA that they be credited whenever their product was used, and there was a lot of backlash against that. I think most of the members look at it from the point of not feeling like they have to promote a merchant when they buy their stuff, more than that they dont want to help another user find what they used in a scene. that factored in with the shear difficulty of actually keeping track of where all the content you used in a scene came from, when you are working out of several runtimes with thousands of items in them, discourages the practice of crediting content.

I barely remember who did what. I tend to use the same stuff over and over anyways...;) I credit myself (or blame, depending on the condition of my models...;) I try, but sometimes I just download so much @#$% into the runtime that it all becomes  a blur...;)

To me, it's a matter of courtesy. If I know who the item is from, and most times I do, then I'll
credit it, if not, I mention that the item is not mine, but that I can't remember the maker. It's
a matter of choice, I suppose, but I never feel right posting a pic with no credits, as if I can
claim I did everything. But, I can see what the people who paid for items, mean. That is a
matter of preference, but, IMVHO, free items should be credited, if you know who did them.
A freebie is a privilage, not a right, and equal courtesy should be returned with a simple
credit. And yes, it is a sore spot that has come up MANY times. :)

Greywolf

I've got such a huge file now, I can't remember where I got a lot of it.
If someone asks however, I try to locate the info.

I don't feel the need to credit purchased items either.  If it is something particularly well made or that I am particularly fond of I will.  I try to always credit free stuff.

I agree that the sale is all that should be expected if you buy it.  Otherwise it's like saying if I buy my shirt at walmart then I have to hang a sign that says where I got it from.

True. I tend to credit purchased items out of habit, and to compliment the venders of course. :)
And I agree that so many freebies, over the years, makes it hard to remember who gets the
creds for it. Another thing I tend to dislike, is pics posted with no comments at all. If you want ME
to comment, then tell me what you tried to do, or write a little blurb telling the tale of what is
happening in your pic, but if you are too lazy to comment on your own pic, don't expect ME to do
it. That's a generic 'you', BTW. Not directed at anyone specific. :)

Greywolf

Quote - But in addition to that the new credit system is a PITA to wade through. (Acadia, back on page 1)

I tried to use that on my last but one gallery posting. It was a lot of work to slog through it all entering the information, and before I could post, the system lost it all. Grr. So I put my credits briefly in text, and the merchants lost their gallery credits, which I regret. Merchants? Lobby the site staff to make the gallery credit system less user hostile, and you'll get more credits.

I try to credit things I purchased in the Marketplace here, as a community courtesy and I try to write in the test a thanks for any freebie.  But in all honesty, there are times when I just can't find who made something.  Maybe if every second product creator didn't name their readme file "readme"...

If I bought it from Daz or elsewhere, then I figure the sale is courtesy enough.

I'll gladly tell anyone who drops me a note where I got something if I can find it.  I once went on a net search for some freebie photoshop brush I had used in post work .  I was just glad to help.

I use "whatever3d.com" to find out the name of the product if I don't remember. Also, for my favorite dozen or so creators, I tend to include their name (or initials or abreviation) as part of the folder the item is in.

I would have posted soon but I want to take some time and think about this giving credit when use stuff that I did not make myself (free or otherwise).

This is what I finally decided my policy will be on giving credit. I have read all of your arguments and they all have valid points what comes next is just my point of view and I put it out there for your consideration. Lets say the image(s) that I render are compared to a research paper. The information in the paper that I did not know and had to look up could be equal to a part of an image that I did not make from scratch but got from someone else. In my paper when I am done with it I would need to include a bibliography, not doing so is a big no-no, it is called plagiarism. Yes? To use someone else work (free or not) in an image and not give them credit isn’t it similar to doing a report without a bibliography?

If you look at my gallery you will see that I do not use the credit links that are there when uploading, but I will keyboard in all the stuff that I used and where to fine them, even the stuff that comes bundled with Poser 7. I also will try to describe what if any changes I made to that content. When I ask for a comments I am looking for input on design, layout and now textures. Currently I am involved in a series using my “Flower Girl” I do not feel the need to repeat credit info. in every new image just credit the new stuff (for the base stuff see the first image).

I am interested in your thoughts on my ramblings.

Quote - In my paper when I am done with it I would need to include a bibliography, not doing so is a big no-no, it is called plagiarism. Yes? To use someone else work (free or not) in an image and not give them credit isn’t it similar to doing a report without a bibliography?

I fully agree with you on a moral level - but many people here, as you can see, don't think it's a big deal.

I am giving credit and I think it is a nice gesture.
I agree, we do not HAVE to nor should we be forced doing it so I do it because I want to do it and it makes me feel more comfortable plus that way others who might like a character or item I used in a picture can find the Merchant straight away.

I would not dare pointing my finger at anyone who does not give credit because we do not have to do it and that is totally fine too.

Quote - > Quote - In my paper when I am done with it I would need to include a bibliography, not doing so is a big no-no, it is called plagiarism. Yes? To use someone else work (free or not) in an image and not give them credit isn’t it similar to doing a report without a bibliography?

I fully agree with you on a moral level - but many people here, as you can see, don't think it's a big deal.

I would not say it is a big deal, it is a matter of choice.
I give credit , it is my choice to show apreciation for the Merchant who created the item I am using PLUS it helps others to find products easier BUT it is not and should never be a must and most certainly it is not a bad thing NOT to credit.

We pay good money for the products we are using so we do not owe to credit or even mention where we bought what.
I made my choice of crediting, but that is my choice.

*In my paper when I am done with it I would need to include a bibliography, not doing so is a big no-no, it is called plagiarism. Yes? To use someone else work (free or not) in an image and not give them credit isn’t it similar to doing a report without a bibliography?

*If someone claimed it to be 100% their work, it would be. The nature of Poser itseld is that most of the people use pre-made content, so just by putting an image in a 'poser gallery' one inherently states that the work is not 100% their own.

A little bit like singing kareoke, it's a known fact that what you're singing isn't 100% your original work, whether you mention the content vendors or not.

For me personally, by the time I'm done with something, I have no clue whom half of the content I used was purchased from. I credit vendors when it's practial, or when I really like the vendor's product.

When this type of usage may be considered plagiarisam could be if content was used instead of modeling and texturing something on one's own for a 3D class, or to obtain a job . Where the expectation is that everthing is your work, except as noted.
For something to be plagiarized, there has to exist an element of theft, or passing something as their own.

When content is purchased and used for renderings and posten n Poser galleries here on rendo, it's use is consistent with purchased license, and the license does not require vendor credit. So, there's no element of theft.

However, giving credit where practical would be a polite thing to do, from the community point of view.

Quote - If someone claimed it to be 100% their work, it would be. The nature of Poser itseld is that most of the people use pre-made content, so just by putting an image in a 'poser gallery' one inherently states that the work is not 100% their own.

That's the culture here; and while in the little cultural vacuum we live in, it works okay.  When you go outside, e.g. to cgSociety or some other culture, or apply that reasoning to most other creative endeavors that are to be shown to your peers, it fails disastrously.

Quote - That's the culture here; and while in the little cultural vacuum we live in, it works okay.  When you go outside, e.g. to cgSociety or some other culture, or apply that reasoning to most other creative endeavors that are to be shown to your peers, it fails disastrously.

I would expect it to fail on places like CG society and similar places. Standards are different, and much higher over there. Personally, I will always have a greater degree of admiration for work that was done well 100% from scratch, then for the work that was done with aid of pre-made content. Whether I do it or someone else does it.
Trying to compare the two would be like comparing apples and oranges.
To me Poser work that relies mostly on other people's content is a form of a collage. Digital 3D collage.
Something done from scratch... it's more like life drawing, or sculpture.
Both can be valid forms of artistic expression, but one has a lot higher degree of technical difficulty (in a way of skills) then the other. Those familiar with the amount of work involved will take that into the account when judging a piece.

Most people that I've seen burned on higher end places are those whom walk in using poser's pre-made content and insist on their work being on the same level as a piece done from scratch. Well, it isn't. Even lot of the artists making content for poser wouldn't get top accolades over there. Not because of 'poser' but because there's a lot of Poser content that isn't top notch.
Frankly, my patience gets short too when someone does half the work I did on something, and insists on equal rewards - with just about anything in life.

I'm often baffled with people whom overvalue their artistic skills, and get their panties all bunched up when the reality hits them. This is not unique to poser... I just got done watching American Idol, and was remembering auditions. There's plenty of people whom think they are a lot better then they really are... in many aspects if life. We have them here, and CG society has them too. Sometimes they clash.

Quote - Even lot of the artists making content for poser wouldn't get top accolades over there. Not because of 'poser' but because there's a lot of Poser content that isn't top notch.

I dunno about that, e.g. look at Stefan Morell/Stonemason's famous Poser modeling work and how it is received on cgTalk:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=480969 The Neighbourhood
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=370041 The Ministry (?) 
http://stefan-morrell.cgsociety.org/gallery/ the rest of his gallery at cgSociety

He gets high props, because he's an awesome modeler and texturer; people know he sells a lot of his models to Poserdom.  He's also careful to be explicit about what parts of an image are his original work, and what parts are not (and very little of any of his artwork is not his original work).

Not arguing with the rest of your post, but just pointing out that cgTalk does not automatically talk a shit on anything even remotely connected to Poser; just the types that post the typical all-purchased content stuck together in the stereotypical dollhouse scene.

I try to credit  all the stuff I used, because I understand what 76claudia2205 means. Often enough I see some item I like in an image and refer to the credits to find out who made it, and where to get it. So I'm thankful for the advertising. And I like to appreciate the good work of vendors and freestuff contributors by crediting them. But I don't feel obliged to credit. After all it's Poser we talk about and no one will assume I modelled a dress or a chair by myself. Or a cube. ;)

I credit only for freebies , I've already paid for the rest and the author can use some money for advertising them as far as I'm concerned.

You can simply PM the author and ask...

Yes, we do pay for what we use, I think it is courtesy to the Creator to show that we apreciate that this outfit, hair, character is there so that we can create.
I also think it should not be forced on us to credit, it is OUR choice.
I happens to like to give credit and do not even see it as advertising , I LOVE to see comments and when someone tells me I done good , so that is why I give credit.

Not a must and I think it is not nice to treat people who chose NOT to give credit bad or look down on them as if they done wrong cos they have not at all.

I suppose I'd better start crediting Rotring, Windsor and Newton, Daler, Faber-Castell, Staedtler-Mars, Mecanorma etc in my "traditional" stuff, then. :biggrin:

Quote - I suppose I'd better start crediting Rotring, Windsor and Newton, Daler, Faber-Castell, Staedtler-Mars, Mecanorma etc in my "traditional" stuff, then. :biggrin:

Well, back when I was more active in painting miniature figures, I used to mention the paints and brushes I used. (Reaper Mini paints -- they actually have a yellow that covers, and Windsor&Newton Series 7 sable brushes -- by far the best brushes I've used. Plus future floor wax.) And of course the figures.

Quote - > Quote - Even lot of the artists making content for poser wouldn't get top accolades over there. Not because of 'poser' but because there's a lot of Poser content that isn't top notch.

I dunno about that, e.g. look at Stefan Morell/Stonemason's famous Poser modeling work and how it is received on cgTalk:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=480969 The Neighbourhood
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=370041 The Ministry (?) 
http://stefan-morrell.cgsociety.org/gallery/ the rest of his gallery at cgSociety

He gets high props, because he's an awesome modeler and texturer; people know he sells a lot of his models to Poserdom.  He's also careful to be explicit about what parts of an image are his original work, and what parts are not (and very little of any of his artwork is not his original work).

Not arguing with the rest of your post, but just pointing out that cgTalk does not automatically talk a shit on anything even remotely connected to Poser; just the types that post the typical all-purchased content stuck together in the stereotypical dollhouse scene.

Exactly!  Also, Stonemason (Stefan) is one of a small handful of top notch Poser content makers. I don't think you're arguing with my post, just supporting, or clarifying what I was getting at - real skill does get recognized.

I was thinking more of the content makers whom want to sell their stuff a month after they learned how to make something - where their newness still shows on their product.