me, i'm downloading everything now.  including the CP originals.  RDNA has great quality, but i've also got some wonderful CP animals, and some creepy Sixus stuff.  i'm not going to speculate on reasons right now or cast blame blindly (i'm blind on the subject, even if others know more), but that doesn't mean i'm going to wait for more closings to be announced.

Frankly, I'm amazed at what I'm reading!

Each time I make a purchase from anywhere it gets backed up there and then to a DVD so there's not hassles like this at any time!

I'm not being funny, but what do you other peeps do once you've installed a product, do you just bin it or what???

No disrespect intended, just curious!

Given the RDNA support for the Poser/CP figures, it does seem a bit odd for the link to be broken. Obviously, I don't know details of these contracts, but I wonder how the money gets split up. There's three fingers in the pie, instead of the usual two.

*"Ah, didn't know VP was bigger than I'd thought; my apologies. Now for a question: when's their contract w/ CP come due?"

The contract with CP is due, and we are renewing our contract.

*"I'm kind of surprised at the break between the two, because (prolly wrong on this one too - ) didn't RDNA (or some of the merchants therein) build --or help build-- the G2 figures?"

As far as I know, it was the Poser 5 figures, Don, Judy, et al, that RDNA was involved in.

- I'm not being funny, but what do you other peeps do once you've installed a product, do you just bin it or what???

I have a Posermap on the harddisk of my computer where I keep all acquired content, and keep two (!) synchronised copies on two different external harddisks. I want to make backups on DVD, but I have more than 30GB of content, so that's a lot of work.
There are stories about the lifetime of DVD's, but in my experience if you use a good quality and keep them dark and dry, you keep them for at least ten years, which is more then the average garanteed lifespan of a harddisk. I have backup-CD of more than 11 years old, which are readable without any problem. I had one CD that was exposed to direct sunlight and got damaged, but I still could read parts of it. There are programs that make it possible to recover data from damaged CD's.

Bopper.

Personally I always bought from RDNA and not CP so it has no affect on me.

Quote - I'm not being funny, but what do you other peeps do once you've installed a product, do you just bin it or what???

Between the Mac, the server (a spare FreeBSD box with a lot of HDD's jammed in it) and its RAID array, a USB 400GB hard disk, and 45 some-odd CD's and DVD's burned over the years? I think I'm okay for backups. :) (I was seriously contemplating an external tape drive for awhile, but they're kinda pricey...) /P

I just saw external 580 gig usb drives for $125 shipped. That's a LOT of backups.. ;)

As all the changes in Poserdom clearly indicate the end of the world, I think it is time to implement my backup plan  

Load the .OBJs into Wordpad,  printing those and the textures using inks developed by NASA (so astronauts had a soft expirence) onto hand prepared ethically sourced elephant skin. As global warming is caused by farting pachiderms  - there no problems with the loss of that species.    

Everything will then be stored in a top secret bunker (OK just outside Bognor if you must know) please ignore the "Beware of the Lepoard" sign.  

The recovery process will consist of immigrants from Cuba, Mexico or the next former Russian state to join the EU (also has the advantadge of  you get a cheap plumber) typing these back into a series of Sinclair Spectrums running Daz-studio-Poser 19. 

Oh please excuse me - one of the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse (who looks remarkably like Alan Alda) has just arrived and is asking if his pink pony can have a drink. :)   

I do back up everything on disk.  It's the knowing what's what on what disk and who to chase now for info on that item.

I was more concerned about updates. I printed out all those purchases so I have the dates and proof and I know what date to look for my email reciet. I save all those on disk too. But that won't do you any good if your not going to get notification about said updates. Have to rely on luck, gossip and forum rats to find out.

That is the hassle. Not the backup part which I learned the hard way 6 years ago and will never let that happen again.

End of the world? Not in the least. I'm done with what I needed to do. I've got it organised better now.

edit for spelling. maybe.

can I just say ..my initial "paranoid" suspicions I had a few weeks back regarding this is only looking less and less "paranoid" and much more truth..no wonder they deleted my post over at CP!!!

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/news.php?viewStory=780

Or you can follow the link to the RDNA Product update page :) That is kept current.

I don't consider this any big deal.
I have a set of URL that I troll through on a regular basis, I'll just add RNDA to the list.

The only down side I see is that I won't be able to use any coupons on RNDA stuff now.

Just so everyone can calm down a little:

Vanishing Point is not leaving Content Paradise. They have always treated us well and they provide us plenty of advertising opportunities.

And, no, CP is not "cleaning house", nor are they "firing vendors".

Although I can't speak for Renderosity or RDNA, I would be willing to bet that they were the ones to quit CP, not the other way around. This is based on logical information and is not wild speculation. ;)

Remember, when CP first started, they needed tons of products to entice customers to visit. Who had the biggest supply of Poser products? Renderosity!
I would also be willing to guess that, at the time, CP paid Renderosity more than they should have, just to get access to all the products.

And now that CP has been bought by Smith Micro, it's logical to assume that the company would want to re-negotiate everyone's contracts. Unfortunately, it looks like some of the re-negotiations took a turn for the worse and resulted in Renderosity and RDNA leaving CP.

When it comes to contracts, there are at least two parties involved. I wish people wouldn't jump to wild conclusions about how Smith Micro is "evil" and should be called "Sith Micro". Why is SM the bad guy?
Do you now for a fact that the people at SM kicked out Renderosity or RDNA? If not, then maybe SM doesn't deserve to be called "Sith Micro". Maybe RDNA is the "evil" party for not allowing customers to buy their products from CP.
Yes, I know RDNA isn't actually "evil", but why not? If we're wildly speculating about things, who else can we call "evil"?

Quote - Ah, didn't know VP was bigger than I'd thought; my apologies. Now for a question: when's their contract w/ CP come due?

Now that's an interesting question. The contract is between Vanishing Point and Content Paradise. Beyond the fact that VP will continue to sell at CP, why are the details of the contract anyone else's business?

Calling Sith Micro Evil doesnt just stem from one thing theyve done, nor even two things, but many things, since the acquisition of E-Frontier. I shall continue to call them Sith Micro, based on what Ive seen.

Oh and while Im at it... this is a link I ganked from Ann (ever giving credit where credit is due)
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSBNG28137720080225

We shall see who sings the same tune 6 mos from now.

Did you actually read that whole article, or just what you wanted to read?

"J.P. Morgan Securities on Monday downgraded Smith Micro to "neutral" from "overweight," and said the company's acquisition of e-frontier's products may hit fourth-quarter margins."

So they are anticipating an upturn in Smith Micro this year, acter a falling out with Verizon last year.. aquiring EF was the positive move they made last quarter last year.

Also, later in the same article, they are listing their stock as BUY, not SELL... recommending investors purchase thier stock anticipating future returns.

That article to me at least made it look like Smith Micro was having some problems last year, but purchasing EF was a wise move on thier part, and it's profits are expected to bolster the company.

Reread that article, and please tell me what you saw rather then what I saw.. maybe your take on it is different then mine is?

I read the whole thing, even the parts that make them look good ;o) I posted it as just a "for your information" thing, for those that wanted to read it... it had nothing to do with my reply or really with my stance. As far as whether it was a wise investment and how they will do goes, that remains to be seen.

Quote - You need not be concerned about receiving updates for RDNA products purchased at CP. If an update to a product becomes available you just need to show proof of your purchase and we would be happy to give you a download link.

what sort of "proof of purchase"? Will CP be keeping a record of sales for you and I to reference?

That's wierd, I was sure I had hit the post reply button.

LadyElf, that's good to know and Thanks, but it still doesn't help with email notifications. Now It's check that link all the time incase there is an update. As I said, it's a hassle now.

For a brokerage house store (not an individual) to be included in Content Paradise, there is an agreement and a percentage of course.

The merchants of each store have their percentage, then brokerage and Cp must settle up the rest.

All agreements start and have a renegotiation date in my experience. Rendo and RDNA joined CP around the same time. It makes perfect sense the agreements may end at the same time.

CP was unique in that it accepted store brokerages. All other Poser stores have always only dealt with individual merchants.

In my experience, a venture with three percentage splits is always destined for termination by one of the parties.

I do know that  CP was always extrememly generous with Rendo and RDNA. Noone should see this as a bad move on CP's part, unless you equally see it as bad that Daz doesn't host Renderosity's entire store on their site as well.

Does anyone know if it was RDNA and Renderosity who opted not to renew the contracts?

"Everything that has a beginning, has an end" - Matrix

Quote - > Quote - You need not be concerned about receiving updates for RDNA products purchased at CP. If an update to a product becomes available you just need to show proof of your purchase and we would be happy to give you a download link.

what sort of "proof of purchase"? Will CP be keeping a record of sales for you and I to reference?

Hi Tyger,

You need to make sure you have copies of your email receipts, showing your purchase number and what purchases you have. Doing screen captures of your account screen showing purchases would be a good idea also.

Have no idea what CP will be keeping a record of, that would be a question only CP could answer.  I would presume that all of your purchase history is going to remain in tact, I don't know why it would be any other way.

If you have further concerns, you can site mail any of the admin at RDNA or post a question over in the Site and Contact forum.

Hope that helps :)

Account History will remain at CP. You can export your complete History to Spread Sheet using the Export Button in the Full Order History at CP.

Thanks ratcloset.

That's good and important to know.

Quote - > Quote - Ah, didn't know VP was bigger than I'd thought; my apologies. Now for a question: when's their contract w/ CP come due?

Now that's an interesting question. The contract is between Vanishing Point and Content Paradise. Beyond the fact that VP will continue to sell at CP, why are the details of the contract anyone else's business?

No business of mine, just a curiousity. As far as the contract, it usually carries over w/ the purchase - they have to honor it (but not renew it, which is why I was asking :) ). -- Anton - you've encapsulated part of what I was thinking perfectly... stores usually don't carry other stores, but individuals they will. > Quote - Does anyone know if it was RDNA and Renderosity who opted not to renew the contracts?

Neither party will say - it ain't good PR. OTOH, I still think there are changes afoot that will mean a stronger SM (which they have a fiducary duty to do as a publicly traded corp), even if it means a weaker 'everybody else' in the process. While I don't see DAZ affected (CP still carries accessories for DAZ goods built by third parties), I can see Rendo and RDNA being affected by the smaller potential customer base. /P

Quote - While I don't see DAZ affected (CP still carries accessories for DAZ goods built by third parties), I can see Rendo and RDNA being affected by the smaller potential customer base. /P

Don't think they will be much affected. From what I've read so far those people who usually bought Renderosity or RDNA products through CP will now buy it directly from this stores. I think the only one loosing out here will be CP in the long run and to be honest that is nothing I'm going to worry about ;-)

Agreed, for those who have Poser now... ...but future customers will get exposed to the CP first via the "content" tab, promotional materials that accompany the software, etc.

Yes, they will get exposed first to CP but most everyone has found their way around different sites sooner or later. So I'm sure once they've found out there is life beyond CP they will do what everyone did before them ... go and buy somewhere else as well ;-)

Edit: because when they click on New releases and will find clothes and pose sets for figures that are not sold at CP they will go and ask where those figures are available and that will lead them to DAZ, in the DAZ forum someone might mention Renderosity or RDNA or any other site out there ... It should not take very long for newbies to find all the different sites.

Quote - Puntomaus: 'It should not take very long for newbies to find all the different sites.'

Yup.

to be honest, i think you're both wrong.  from what i've seen watching college students learn to use Poser (several years watching a course) and what i've seen around the net by Poser users from outside the community,  i think most people move on to making their own stuff before looking at the content tab or searching for other content.  and just to say, i think the assumption that the tab would be more relevant than the communities ignores what i find to be basic net practice.  whenever i'm learning anything new tech or app wise (but not in a course), i almost never look at the manual.  i look up stuff online.  and from what i know of other people and the conversations i encounter in these places, lots of other users do, too.  i came to Renderosity not for content, but theory.  i found most of the stores the same way. when i Googled specific topics, i ended up here, RDNA and DAZ.  and then i poked around the sites, because i was learning about the app in general.

i think more people will look up how to use the material room or conform clothing than will consider the "Content" tab as a way to buy stuff.   frankly, that label and the practice at all assumes people think of things in a way that, as far as i've seen from people learning Poser, they just don't until their indoctrinated. 

Well, there is an article here that suggests that the percentage CP was willing to extend to rendo (and probably RDNA as well) was insufficient for them to profit from sales there (and potentially be a loss). This supports Anton's point, which makes the most sense.

I see it as a good thing, though. I love the artists at RDNA, but I don't have any interest in the figures from CP, so maybe now they will release stuff for the figures I like more regularly! Woohoo! If I were RDNA, I would withdraw sales supporting those figures just out of spite, lol. Without morph targets, people would have to learn how to work the morph brush and face room...and most folks wouldn't have the patience and interest-and quickly move on to more generally useful figures available elsewhere. RDNA had a close relationship with CP and the folks at SM should have been more careful with that particular relationship.

And, from what I got out of the article about their stock value, the analyst downgraded their target value from 20 to 12 (or something along those lines). In other words, he thinks they lost a lot of value, but are still performing at below their value. This loss was due to the verizon deal-which is completely irrelevant to us, unless it really does tank them, and cause them to start selling off assets to survive.

It is an interesting time to be in poser land....and who knows whose portfolio the little red running man ball will be bouncing in in the coming years, lol.

Quote - to be honest, i think you're both wrong.  from what i've seen watching college students learn to use Poser (several years watching a course) and what i've seen around the net by Poser users from outside the community,  i think most people move on to making their own stuff before looking at the content tab or searching for other content.

It's more than just the Content tab, though. The user manuals, the marketing materials, and a whole host of other factors come into play. Long story short, the CP gets top (and first) billing. Also, yep... folks will eventually find all the other sites. OTOH, it's not a question of knowing the existence of something, but having first crack at the customers. Take, oh, paint programs. Show of hands: How many non-gfx people do you think have heard of Photoshop? Okay... hands down. Now... how many would know of Paint Shop Pro? Not so many... Now GIMP? Even less, eh? Same story here... if you can get to the customer first, your name gets bigger, you get top priority, and you have the best shot at making the most profits. Now this wouldn't ever be consistently true, nor is it guaranteed. But... you do stand the best and first chance of making it happen if its your name they hear about first. /P

Quote - Well, there is an article here that suggests that the percentage CP was willing to extend to rendo (and probably RDNA as well) was insufficient for them to profit from sales there (and potentially be a loss). This supports Anton's point, which makes the most sense.

I see it as a good thing, though. I love the artists at RDNA, but I don't have any interest in the figures from CP, so maybe now they will release stuff for the figures I like more regularly!

Agreed - it will force diversity. > Quote - RDNA had a close relationship with CP and the folks at SM should have been more careful with that particular relationship.

I don't think the relationship will change by too much, at least not at this time. You don't turn down money when it comes in big enough packages. > Quote - And, from what I got out of the article about their stock value, the analyst downgraded their target value from 20 to 12 (or something along those lines). In other words, he thinks they lost a lot of value, but are still performing at below their value.

Agreed. It will also explain any aggression that arises. /P