Everyone is making valid points on both sides. Some of the Mike renders I saw above are stunning, and DO come close. The four main things that Poser has to overcome to begin looking as good as the FF characters are: 1) Rendering Engine / Lighting Shadows !!! 2) As many have pointed out, there is something wrong around the eyes, nose area. 3) The HAIR! Poser hair has come a long way, but the hair in FF is to die for! It is simply incredible ... and these are just the still shots. From the trailers I saw on the big screen, it appeared they could manipulate very strand if they wanted to! 4) Bump-maps. Take another look at the black guy above ... incredible bump-mapping. He simply looks incredible ... I feel like I could reach out and touch him. (He'd probably bitch-slap me if I tried ... the mighty Ving Rhames is playing him!) Bump-maps coupled with the right lighting/render-engine make a HUGE difference. I honestly feel ALL of these items could be dealt with in the next release, including a spiffed-up render engine. It will never be a 100,000 renderer, but even a minor improvement in this area would advance Poser renders light years. The hair would be the second major obstacle, but we're almost there now, so I don't think this will be a problem. -Tim