It's not just bump mapping, radiosity and specular mapping takes a play here as well. Out of all the functions available between bryce and Poser I really wish one of them would allow - even minimal - radiosity and specular levels. The new Cinema 4D XL7 has some very impressive lighting abilities built into it and the render options are truly stunning with volumetric caustics now a part of the options, if Bryce 5 comes close to this I'll be impressed enough to buy it as I can't afford Cinema 4D at the present time. The chances, and realistic problems with adding radiosity to Poser render engine would mean a complete rewrite of it's current renderer - but then I guess it wouldn't hurt to overhaul the thing anyway. It just seems strange that so many 3d apps allow specular mapping, yet neither Poser nor Bryce do this. I must confess that I'm surprised poser doesn't have specular levels seeing as they are so important to accurate flesh mapping - not just glowing bits on space-ships. Heh, and now I'm starting on things I'd like to see. I guess it just can't be helped. :) Hopefull, whatever CL do with poser 5, they'll manage to overhaul the program and still keep the price manageable. It would be a real shame to see this affordable package join the ranks of the other so called "professional" market programs, just because of the huge number of new toys that have been added. Perhaps better integration with other software would be a way to go - increasing the scale of poser objects to match those of other apps for import/export, and allowing greater compatibility when exporting to programs like Bryce and Vue - though if I recall correctly vue 4 now recognises and imports Poser pz3 scenes, and that has a hugely improved engine too. I do appreciate why people would like a better renderer in Poser, but I personally feel that the modelling aspects of this package would be better overhauled as there are other apps based on render engines that will always do the job better. Now, the real trick would be to make Poser animations compatible with an external renderer, so you can create the walk anim within Poser and export the whole thing to another engine to render it, rather than having to export per frame from Poser. Oh I dunno, I'm starting to ramble. Time for more coffee I think.