Well, poser is as '3d' as any renderer. It obviously isn't a modeler, but it is 3d. And I hate to see "modelers" held out as the only worthwhile talent in the creation of a 3d image or video. What about the animators, light pros, compositors, and all the other talent that is included in a major production? When will modelers get over themselves. Yes, it takes talent, but so do a lot of things. One reason you don't see as much crap coming from the high-end apps, is that what you see is highly filtered, either by moderators or by public, humiliating abuse of those who post less than stellar work so that most don't try. There are plenty of crappy models and renders being made from top-end applications, there just isn't anywhere welcoming to those of lesser abilities in that tier to post them. Yeah, there may be a lot of less-than-stellar work posted in the galleries here. But so what? It is obviously a hobby site and people are just enjoying doing what they can with what they can afford. Why do we need this elitist, derogatory attitude? How pathetic must you be at using the 'real' 3d software if you have to pick on poser users to feel better about yourself.