Connie that is indeed a nice looking outfit and killer boots. Good work!

Now, regarding NGMs they are geometry based and not magnet based so they can be used in Carrara for example with very good results btw.

Regarding the outfit I agree with many people here that an outfit so tight as this and with a built-in bra, as Connie said, couldn't possibly allow breast shapes like the ones on any NGM kit.

But as some others have pointed out , it could be just for fun and not to obtain or gain a sense or reality while making an image.

There will be a NGM for GND4 since unfortunately most of the morphs end twisted or bend in strange ways looking not very appealing to be honest with the current NGMV4.

I will send you the finished set once I have finished it and if you like I can help you with the  creation of the morphs in the suit if you like.

Hey Posermatic!

I'm glad you popped in to clear up things for us! Good to hear that NGMs will work in Carrara. I'll definitely have to put them on my short wishlist.
One question about the upcoming GND4 NGMs. Will those be a stand-alone product or will they require any of the other NGM sets?

Wow! Natural Gravity looks heavy man!

Quote - I will send you the finished set once I have finished it and if you like I can help you with the  creation of the morphs in the suit if you like.

Oooh Posermatic!
THANK YOU!
That would be most wonderful! I'm sure the guys will absolutely love you for it, if they don't already :)

I can handle making the morphs easy enough, so I don't want to bug you with asking for more effort :)   Just drop me a note when they're ready, or can email me at conniekat8@yahoo.com .

Stormy will just faint when he will know that!! :scared:

Hi JoeBWan! There will be two versions of NGM for GND4 one will be the regular, big gravity ones and other that will be dedicated to "petite" shapes. But you won't need to buy both, just the one that you like the most.

@Lost inSpaceman: yeah, the gravity on NGMs is actually something close to 20m/s2 than the usual 9.87 m/s2 ;)

I will email you then conniekat! Will keep coming here to see the progress of the suit.

As for the first attempt of the bodymorph, well WW2 seems to have crumpled most of the fine detail, too bad. Hope you can solve this, maybe try the Netherworks kit or something similar.

Don't know for sure which one is the best because I do matching morphs by hand so I cannot be of help but maybe someone here can help you with that.

Thanks Posermatic, that's so very nice of you to stop by. I think you made the guys very very happy!!!
 
I'll do most of the morphs by hand, you get best results that way - I agree. Wardrobe wizard seems to have done good enough job on the non detailed part of the suit to save me a little bit of time where I just need to go over it with a smoothing brush. It helps a bit.

Quote - Stormy will just faint when he will know that!! :scared:

Nice one Vince!

Yeah, thanks Posermatic. I know it's not terribly realistic, but I love having as many options as possible to morph something.  The GND4 is a terrific body shape, I was just thinking about the the possiblities of changing the chest shape of the outfit if I'm using A4, nothing too great, just subtle. I'm thinking of the Petite morphs. It may not work out but it's great to have the opportunity to try.

Update: I'm working on body style morphs. I decided to do them by hand, from scratch. What comes out of various helper programs ends up looking too mangled, and it takes longe to fix it then to just do it from scratch.

If anyone is following this thread for technical stuff, this is a great utility: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2737897
Exports OBJ's for each morph on a character.

Sounds like alot of work Connie, good luck!

Yea, full body morphs like Aiko or Amazon etc are taking about 6 hours a piece to make.

whuff! go, kitty, go!

I love the fact you're covering so many morphs Connie, way to go. So much hard work. Don't stress yourself out over it though will you, we'll need you in one piece at the end of it!

I personally think the outfit will look best on a slim, athletic body. I'm looking forward to using it with A4, maybe with a slight mix of GND4 or Alice. I guess it'd be OK to not have her with a totally realistic body as it is a fantasy outfit afterall.

Still working on the straps for the Alice morph. All day - yikes!
There's gotta be a better way  kitty slumps over

Aiko 4 is next.

It's looking great Connie! I know it's a lot of hard work, but I hope you're enjoying it too. It will certainly be very appreciated on our end.

Your great work will pay you in return Connie :)
And after that, all the other clothes you could do would be sooo easy for you ^^

Many hours Connie, but most definitely worth it. I think the Alice shape is cool for your outfit!
Hang in there, give yourself a holiday once it's done.

Just curious, is that for Alice 2.0?

Yea, that's for the newest Alice

just an FYI: NGM for GND V4 is in the store.

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=64193&WhatsNew=Y

Yup yup!  And I heard from posermatic, and will be including them in the outfit.

I started on the A4 morph last night... may have something to show later today - I hope.

Honey is back in town after being gone for couple of weeks, so I may have a distraction or two

Connie, absolutely fantastic work! Can you give me a clue as to what method you use to form the original plain bodysuit so that it's skin tight? I've tried splines, box modeling and point to point but still haven't gotten the wonderful results you have here. That's great!

Hi Damsel :)
I started off with box modelling and refined it as I went.
I dont' have any special way of getting it really close to her body other then a lot of vertex pushing and pulling and a LOT of patience.
I usually fire up an audiobook for entertainment while I'm doing this.

I tried using 3D studio Max cloth simulations to try and get it close to the body, but it didn't do much better job then the modeling itself. Actually, it created some distortions that I didn't like all that much. After giving it a try, I scrapped that idea. Seems like nothing else I tried gives me results better then what I get by patience and practice.

When modeling, I make a lot of use of smoothing and control cages, till I'm happy with the mesh.

Pic to follow... one of the staring box models:

Then I set the view to front, with the figure inside it, from the neck to ankles. Then tried to add lines (loops) at major angles. Places like waist, hips, shoulders, knees etc. Then sizing those loops to fit the figure.

In the attached pic, box on the left some of the loops have been sized, and a loop dividing the mesh in left and right has been added. (So I can take advantage od symmetry.)

Not too long after those refindments and after adding side seams and cutting out an area for armpits, I added sleeves. This was done with extrusion, initially just to get a very general shape around the arms

While I'm doing this shaping I frequently switch between smoothed and unsmoothed views to help me stategize what to do next.

Also, a note, GND morphs are not perfectly symmetrical, so when it comes to finely fitting detail, you can't keep working in symmetry mode to the end. Visually, I think it malkes her more appealing that she is not perfectly symmetrical. Makes her look a tad more realistic to the human eye.

Thanks so much Connie. I have done it that way with V4, but still don't have the excellent results you do. I work in C4D, maybe I'll try Hexgon. ;-) I appreciate the info!

Edit.... I also have trouble after the fact of making it conforming with the falloff zones and having certain areas of it go nuts when posing her. sigh.

When it comes to posing and rigging, my partner OKC Randy is an expert with rigging, CR2 hacking and many other nuts and bolts kinds of things.
So when I get myself tangled up with rigging, I just screeeeam loud enough here in California so he can hear me all the way in Oklahoma, and jump in and bail me out.
He's going to do the rigging on this, and any nice Joint Parameter Morphs. I can barely do them. he can really do them.

Seems like I have a few years of modeling experience on him, and he has a few years of experience on me when it comes to rigging and scripting on me. Together we make one half ways decent expert.

For some reason, I really like working in Hexagon. It's a personal preference. There are a few other apps that will do the same, and even better, but something about Hex just clicked with me.

When it comes to modeling things, I do have to admit that I'm not exactly new to it, so whomever is just learning it or is new to it, it's important to go easy on yourself and give yourself time to try things, a few dozen times if needed. Getting frustrated, it can happen a lot. But don't give up because of frustration!

Sounds like you and Randy make a terrific team. :-) Thanks for taking the time to reply tonight. I appreciate it!

Quote - Sounds like you and Randy make a terrific team. :-) Thanks for taking the time to reply tonight. I appreciate it!

You're definately welcome :)
Sorry, I negelected to say thanks for stopping in here and that I'm very flattered with your compliments. 

Stuff that I create never looks as good to me as other people seem to think or say it is. They look more like ont thing that didn't go quite right after another.

If I didn't try and see past that, none of the stuff I make would ever see the light of day. In light of that, I find positive feedback very encouraging... to learn more and get even better and better.
Thanks again :)

Here is a fine example of what i really appreciate from you, one asks a question about a technical aspect of your building of the mesh, and you take the time to answer with plenty of details and some pictures to show your workaround :)

Connie, you should have more confidence in you, you really master modeling and bring it to a high point ^^ Btw, you don't need to precise you're not new to modeling, it's neat and obvious when we look at your work :D

When you talk about control cages in Hex, do you talked about the control cage tool or do you consider the unsmoothed mesh as that control cage?
I ask because i tried many time my hands on the control cage tool, and never succeeded to have something right.

Thanks Vince, you're too kind :)   I try to explain thins when I have time and energy, and when it's something I think I know how to do.
I dunno, some people say don't give away your 'secrets', people will use them to compete with you. I just don't quite see it that way. People whom can compete with me now already know their stuff. Those whom are learning, they have some time to invest before they can compete, and may even end up working with me on a project.
Also, I think its good for end users of product to see the effort that goes into a project. It probably helps some of them appreciate it.

It's the unsmoothed mesh that I call control cage. Hex has also an option in it's dynamic geometry to display it or not. Handy feature which I don't use nearly enough.

I think the other one that you may be tlking about is a deformer, where you get a 3D grid of sorts, of 3x3x3, where you get to push and pull grid vertices, and it deforms the mesh inside.  I don't use that one very much. Almost never to be honest.  I tried, but never got results that I liked. Maybe there are other things that I haven't tried, that it works for.

What I do like to use, and gives me similar results with little more control are soft selections. For example, fitting the outfit straps to a new body shape, 95% of that is done with soft selections.

I keep saying I'm going to install one of those screen capture video utilities and record a modeling session. I never end up doing it.

Soft selection is such an useful features! I don't know how i could do without it, most for morphing as you said.

If you are talking of those screen capture video utility with a microphone to record your voice, i just hope you have not a too 'hard' accent for me to understand you LOL :)))

Connie, I feel you are absolutely right from my experience. I've never turned down a call for help in any area and because of that have some wonderful friends and helpful advice coming back over the years. :-) Keep on doing the great job you are, it will come back to you tenfold. Remember the old saying that you reap what you sow? Well, it's true. :-)

otay, Aiko 4 morph done.

Initially I had a list of 16 Full body morphs (FBM's) I wanted to make. Considering they are taking 10 hours a piece, I'm going to have to shorten the list.
So far theesa are done:

V4
Aiko4
Alice
Amazon (V4++ pack)
Body Builder (V4++ pack)

Other 3rd party character fits I was going to make Tanith (Thorne/Sarsa character), Pretty 3d, Milan. None of theese will be dropped.

And the following from V4.2 base, V4++ and Aiko Morph Packs:

Thin, Stylized, realistic, pettite, pear figure, fitness and bulk. 
I need to decide which of theese seven can be dropped. (Any feedback on this?)

I tried with the male morph, and things get way too mangled and strange looking. This is not exactly a uniex piece!

I still plan on making a bunch of other little morphs, things like calf flex, glute flex, inhale, lat size, Arm Size, Bicep Flex, Breast in/out, up down AND posermatic's morphs,

Connie - I know the amount of work you're putting in, seriously it's alot, but can I ask you don't drop the petite or fitness morphs. These are two of my fav morphs, & I can see me really using these with the outfit.

I didn't realise you were going to do Tanith & Milan. I have both of these but I've never used their body morphs. I've used T&S face morphs & Milan for the great textures. Are the body morphs interesting, I can't check at the moment?

Great to know you'll be doing flex morphs, they'll come in handy for certain poses!

Connie - Are the NGM's you're going to be using in the outfit GND4 NGM's?
Sorry, for some reason I thought you'd be going with the V4 Petite ones.

The only set I have are the morphs that posermatic sent me: GND4 NGM's, the brand new ones he just released. I thought he said something about regular V4 ones not working all that well on GND4.

Tanith is a very cute pettite character. Milan Is pretty popular, very slender... cosmopolitan type girl. 

Tanith: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=61454&
Milan: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=54193& 

Oh, I now see why some people thought I had a strange idea about the NGM's for the outfit. I thought I had originally mentioned the Petite ones for V4. Here's a comparison against the GND ones.

Can you see what I originally had in mind? It wasn't the larger boobs, but the smaller ones for the smaller frame.
I understand these don't work too well with the GND4 (I'll test just to confirm it to myself) but on V4 & A4 they look great.

again, i think you're not looking at how NGM Petite actually works.  testing it (got done with my V3 render and taking a pause from another), i see it only installs 9 new morphs.  the rest are NGM morphs and Morphs++ morphs.  iirc, Posermatic said the GND V4 one would be stand alone, but NGM Petite presets use the 11 NGM morphs and  at least 20 Morphs++ morphs.  at least by my count.  and while taking out the unique morphs produces definite, significant and noticeable changes, they're basically refinements.  most of the shape is produced by the other two sets of morphs, so you can't use it alone and even approximate the presets.

i'm not sure how one would account for them in clothes exactly.  because presets aren't the same as morphs.  i mean, you could match the presets, but that's a  very limited usage.

Connie - Sorry to have troubled you about the NGM's. I understand it would be more work to implement the Petite ones than it would the GND4 specific morphs. The Petite NGM's were the only ones I had in mind. I'm just wondering now how many people would use these morphs, so would it be worth all your time doing it as I know the other morphs are far more important in your schedule? You needed to scrap one or two things, so shall it be the NGM's?
My idea was different so I'll take the blame!

Quote - Connie - Sorry to have troubled you about the NGM's. I understand it would be more work to implement the Petite ones than it would the GND4 specific morphs. The Petite NGM's were the only ones I had in mind. I'm just wondering now how many people would use these morphs, so would it be worth all your time doing it as I know the other morphs are far more important in your schedule? You needed to scrap one or two things, so shall it be the NGM's?
My idea was different so I'll take the blame!

I have the pettite ones now too. Westil have time to decide, I won't get around to making much woith those morphs till probably next week. I haven't used any of them yet, so I have no idea if or how they work. Whetehr they are dial settings, or actual morphs or some other way of making them. If they work, I'll put them in there.

Petite ones do make more sense then the DD's would on this outfit. But, like I said, there's time to decide.

As far as scrapping anything, right now it's only full body morphs (FBM's) that I'm considering. Body part morphs BPM's (that includes boobs), come after I'm done with FBM's.

I expect each FBM takes about five times longer then one BPM. Since BPM's tend to be smaller and more subtle = less morphing work.

*i'm not sure how one would account for them in clothes exactly.  because presets aren't the same as morphs.  i mean, you could match the presets, but that's a  very limited usage.

*If some of the morphs are presets of a combination of various BPM's, the outfit will contain most of the Body Part Morphs from V4 and V4++ package.

In most cases I'm making the outfit super-conforming too, which means if you dial a setting on the GND4 body, the outfit setting will change as well. You won't have to dial character boob settings separately from the outfit.

Cobaltdream, Stormy, how about you guys leave the wory about how to implement things to me :biggrin:     I'll  'splain how to, or how I did it when I get to doing it. I'm not there yet.
group hug 

Glad you're not stressed out about it Connie, I know I would be!

Yeah, group hug! :biggrin:

so you also have NGM for V4?  or are you trying to use NGM Petite with NGM for GND4?  or are you working with an advanced copy of NGM Petite for GND4? 

and kudos for figuring this all out.  some of the Petite presets are supposed to be used with other full body morphs, though i'm really less sure about their relationship.  i think it's all in the chest, but not being at my Poser computer, can't verify that.