Why don't you use dynamic cloth / hair ?

I do sometimes use dynamic cloth.  Not hair though - I prefer the modelled stuff, it renders better in Vue

Dynamic cloth rocks. I don't use dynamic hair because I haven't had the time to explore the hair room yet - and if I'm holding back, it's probably because I haven't seen much dynamic hair that looks as convincing as good transmapped hair.

Dynamic cloth a lot of the time, it looks much more realistic!!

Why people do not use dynamic clothes? I know 4 reasons:

1. Conforming are much more easy to use.
2. 99% of works are rendered pictures. Dynamic clothes are necessery for animations only.
3. 99% of works are almost naked Victorias. Conforming bottoms on niples works better. Dynamic can fall down and you cannot post your work on this forum because of censorship ;)
4. Calculating dynamic with high poly figures vs high poly full clothes take ages.

Only 3 reasons to not use dynamic hairs

1. Hair room is more difficult then clothroom and after 5-6 trial calculation of dynamic hairs I ALWAYS have poser crash (worked with P5 and P7 on 3 different computers)
2. Hair room give you less option then cloth room. You cannot choose frames to calculation (or I miss something)
3. Dynamic hairs are easy to make but not skullcap. You need UV mapper and Photoshoop to make good dynamic hairs.

*Dynamic clothes are necessery for animations only.

*Not strictly true, I use dynamic cloth in a lot of my still renders simply because they look more natural!!

 Dynamic cloth even in stills looks much more realistic - and it usually fits better and even needs no morphs for adjusting it. The problem is that there are only a few good ones - look for svdl.

There's some really nice dynamic clothing at 3Dcommune, check out FK Designs page!!

Thefixer and MungoPark, of course dynamic can be used to still renders.
I wanted to say that conforming cannot be used on animation - only armors and sexy outfits.
Animation and dynamic is a must. Still and dynamic is an option.

MungoPark - most (not all) conforming clothing can be used as a dynamic. They requred only selecting correct choreographed, constrained and decorated groups. Most people avoid it because nobody use Poser group editor without really serious needs.

I've been at war with dynamic hair for weeks now, as it crashes my computer when I want to animate it.  

I like the look of dynamic cloth and use it whenever possible, however it does not play well with Vue (at least in my experience) and the dials are not intuitive.  I would like it better if they had plain lables like "Silky"  "Wooly"  "Stiff"  instead of  "shear resistance. . ." errr. 

It would be so great to just say the thing is made of silk and let it go.

The hair room was designed for engineers, not artists.

The face room is a waste unless you only use Poser characters. 

*however it does not play well with Vue (at least in my experience)

*Never had any problems importing dynamic cloth to vue!! [Vue6infinite, Poser 6 and 7, Vista Ultimate 64]

I've always had good results importing dynamic cloth into Vue too.  Sometimes gets a bit of tweaking in ZBrush first though to smooth out any simulation weirdness.

Every time I try to bring it in, it loses it's shape and reverts back to the square.  Am I forgetting a step? 

You have to import the frame where the animation has finished so if it's a 30 frame animation, import frame 21 (poser and Vue number the frames differently)

I always drop 1 frame on import!!

When I do the dynamics in Poser I set the final pose at frame 25 but let it finish at frame 30, when importing into Vue, I import at frame 29, because as Frank says Vue sees it differently!

If you doa 30 frame cloth sim and import into Vue at frame 30, it generally doesn't work, so always drop 1 frame from your end poser frame!!

Poser...........frame 30
Vue...............frame 29

I just wish I could type :) I meant 29 not 21 D'oh

interesting topic, but why do you ask? Do you have something to say?

::::: Opera :::::

I don't use dynamic hair for closeups unless I am going to stylize in AE to the point where detail is partially muted. The reason? In order to get strand hair looking realistic in a close up, you have to jack up the number of hairs, and you have to throw shadow, AO and/or raytrace on the hair. Then, you have to really fiddle with it.

Too much bother.

However, from medium distance, or stylized, Poser hair is excellent.

I've found that the hair obeys gravity and the other settings faithfully; it also will NOT poke thru the mesh if you turn on collision.

The hair is completely free of jitter when collision is off.
The only fault of Poser Dynamic hair is that with collision on, it is difficult if not impossible to stop jitter. Jitter is when there is no head movement or wind force at play and therefore the hair should fall still; however, it does not. It vibrates against the polygons.

One can get around this in a few ways. Naturally if is a very short haircut, or stiff with styling, you just get around it by cranking up certain settings that still let the hair move some, but not enough to let it go thru the mesh, even with collision off. Some would say, well render the "still" part of the animation with collision off. That does not help, because sometimes the still pose would have hair failling right thru the mesh due to angle. Also jitter is visible in "near stopped" motion.

One final item: Anyone attempting to tame this hair with collision on wouild do well to consider a proxy; that is a very very low polycount 'envelopment' that goes over the head, shoulders and chest. You collide the hair against this rather than the underlying model. This results in a much much faster simulation and less jitter.

You perform the simulation with the proxy visible, but make it invisible for render.

There's a great freebie proxy here in freestuff -- just look up vendor Kirwyn.

::::: Opera :::::

I personally love dynamic clothing.
        1. seldom have poke throughs no matter what position.
        2. you can put the clothing on almost anything
        3. it lays more naural
I don't use dynamic hair much because I'm not that familiar with the hair room and because it takes too long to render, but I'd like to learn it.

only time I don't use them is when I'm exporting a character to Bryce, etc. I'm more interested in what looks good, vs what I used.

I don't use dynamic clothing or hair because its a heck of allot easier using conforming clothing. If i have poke through ,which is rare, i just use the dials to fix it. And i don't do any animations

Quote - interesting topic, but why do you ask? Do you have something to say?

::::: Opera :::::

nothing to say,seemed like the thing to ask.

Opera all that you know but no .jpgs in ya gallery here so what's the url to your gallery ?

i  do use dynamic cloth.  conforming just about never fits my figure, and i got tired of using conversion tools.  and i like the folds.   i don't think the dials are named badly- silky and wooly are combinations of properties, not single ones.  i  do think their range is completely unapparent, and Poser's creators should make some really clear sets of tutorials with examples of different settings for each parameter.  just the same as the Castle Poser tutorials for material room nodes.  and i think they should make some really high quality, detailed dynamic clothes.  i've been surprised at how easy it was to make something have thickness.  i know jack squat and am just starting out, and i'm still able to make clothes with edges. 

i don't use dynamic hair.  not for realism reasons, but resources and learning curve. i tried to use adorana's dynamic hair once.  it worked fine as long as i didn't  try to do anything to it.  trying to move it around a little bit made everything collapse.  no clue what i did so wrong, but it couldn't have been very error tolerant.  i mean, i just moved a guide. 

i'd rather learn to model hair with strips that sit straight out in zero pose and then drape them.  i mean something like Wild Hair or Jolie Fille hair wouldn't be possible as a cloth sim, but something with a part count like about 99% of hair in the market would be.  i haven't tried dynamics on anyone else's hair because i think the overlapping and intersecting pieces would be a problem.  but then, i do stills, so i don't mind something i need to postwork. 

I use dynamic cloth, but not the hair.
I also use dynamics on parts of conforming items.
For instance, if you take a conforming dress, and you want the skirt to drape naturally -- then put dynamics on the skirt. (i.e. fire up the cloth room and clothify the skirt)
I do it all the time, it works a treat.

*It would be so great to just say the thing is made of silk and let it go.

• There is a great little free utility of SVDL that just let you select what kind of fabric you want and does the settings for you.

I use Dynamic clothes  a lot especially for skirts and dresses because it's PITA to make them fit correct with conforming clothes, and I don't only use it for clothes: look at my free dynamic chairs.

I like dynamic hairs, especially since I figured out how to make a perfect shader for them, I use Adorana's free hairstyles, because they are the best. 
I tried once to make my own dynamic hair, but I give up crying, I 'm an engineer not a hairstylist.

Best regards,

Bopper

bopperthijs i'd be interested in hearing about your shader for dynamic hair.

::::: Opera :::::

::::: Opera :::::

Click for full res.

Here is a quick render done (it's really messy) with V4's MFD, sitting on a chair.
The trick is, you need to have the cloth settings a little looser than you normally would use (maybe not quite as lose as I used ;)) and if you want to drape over a chair... well, the way I do it is I start with the chair well away from the figure, and I put it where I want it on the last frame.
Voila.
MFD, draped over the chair, the legs and whatnot, without looking stiff. (Well, if you spend more than the 5 minutes I spent, that is)
You don't need a dynamic cloth item to use the cloth room. You can easily clothify the skirt of a conforming outfit.
I've never tried clothifying the whole thing... but that might work too.

(In case anyone wonders, the right leg is hooked behind the left leg, which is why you see the toe pushing the fabric. The left leg is straight out and down. Hard to see, I know.)

For those that do not use Dynamic Hair.. remember, you can combine it with Transmapped Hair. Getting the color to match is sometimes hard, but if you need a scene where you want to alter the hair or have it draped on their hand as if they are wiping it out of their eyes (even in a Still) a small Hair Group in combination with a Transmapped Hair can get those little details you wish to add.

Here is a Screenshot of my hair shadersettings I use for brown hair. I have to say they aren't my own settings, I got this advice from SVDL. Perhaps you remember the picture I posted in the VSS-thread. There's where I used these settings.
I think the anisotropic node makes really the difference.

Best regards,

Bopper.

i'm going to try that.

Thanks

:: og ::

Quote - For those that do not use Dynamic Hair.. remember, you can combine it with Transmapped Hair.

That's a useful tip. I never thought of that... Just the thing for adding a few wayward strands to a modelled hair prop. Thanks!

Thanks also to bopper and svdl for the hair shader.

Actually, ratscloset hasn't revealed all that little trick can do. Any hairstyle that that has tails, clip bound falls, etc, can have the clips-barrettes-whatever as props, with a section beveled and subdivided to provide sufficient vertices for guide hairs. This can either be smartpropped to the head, a particular modelled hair prop or figure, or left as a parentable prop for use wherever. The only issues with this approach is making sure the transmapped hair texture aligns properly, so it looks as if the hair is actually contiguous, and adding a layer of constrained dynamic hair over the transmapped hair, for a little bit of body (take apart one of Adorana's more complex hair props, you'll see what I mean).

The downside is the number of hair groups you can wind up having to run sim time on, and you have to be careful in your styling. If the transmapped hair's geometry doesn't support the flow to the extra hair bits, then it looks like a kid who takes a costume hair piece and sticks it on with no thought of looking 'right' (wihch for comedy is just fine, but.....) 

Thanks Dale. I'm making notes... 

Why don't you use dynamic cloth / hair ?

I don't don't use dynamic cloth.  In fact I prefer dynamic cloth, especially in animations
because to me it moves and flows more realistically. 

OTOH, I have never been able to make dynamic hair that looks realistic,
and pre-packaged sets are way to resource intensive, so I seldom use it.

I use a transmapped skullcap underneath dynamic hair; otherwise, it's hard to get it thick enough without bogging Poser down.

Dynamic hair doesn't translate to Vue very well, alas. 

randym77 nice one!

I know what it took for you to resolve that many fine hairs. You've got the shaders set beautifully for blonde hair, also, and that is a tricky business, i know.

Do you have raytrace on and the hair visible to raytrace?

::::: Opera :::::

Actually, it's a pretty quick and dirty render.  I did it in a few minutes as an example when someone asked a question here.  It's the free Genesis Hair, just made longer. 

I can't remember what the render settings were but I would guess ray tracing was off.  I don't think dynamic hair works with ray-tracing.  You need shadows on for it to look good, but ray-tracing is just way too slow.

The shader is one of the free ones from RDNA.