i like that the main words are first and there are several usability studies showing this is the best way to do things.  the important part of the label isn't fingers and inner, it's nails and mouth.  and it makes it easy to scan and match the two items.  

people rarely use figures without textures, where the number of people i've read who i've read having problems managing materials is high.  i also think that Blender only supports like 12 materials per object.  i'm not sure of the number, but it's way below 20.  just because you have a seam doesn't mean you need a material zone change.  personally, i'd suggest limiting the number of zones like i would any interface choice (Blender's limit is probably a good one), but that's me.  

but if you are going to have so many zones, then they should just be the usable ones.  for instance, is the neck a zone that makes sense, or is it just something that follows your UV map? and the skull zone?  i think even without textures, the skull doesn't need a separate zone, but if it did, it shouldn't follow the UV map precisely.  the neck could be useful only if it were cut in a totally different place than the UV map, because clothing would come lower on the neck.  the hands and feet i'm less sure about, but imho, they only make sense as separate zones if you can use the edges for quickie, no texture clothes (gloves, leggings, etc.).  

i think if by eyeball you mean sclera  or eye white you should say so, just because i'm pretty sure i've used props or something where eyeball is an outer layer that should be transparent and reflective.  and is the cornea really a cornea?  or does it actually cover the whole eye (as the real cornea does not)?  if it's not really a cornea, which means it's just over the iris, then i wouldn't call it that.  as is, your materials imply the same eye structure as the Unimesh eye, and if it's more like the V4 eye, i think it would be good for that to be clear.  i've spent a lot of time messing with values and trying to figure out what should be reflective and what was under what.  

different zones for each set of lashes seems completely superfluous.  

Excellent points, colbaltdream!

I have two overlays on the skin, which obviously require separate materials. But I can combine things within those. I'll probably keep the lip zone, though, unless people convince me there ain't gonna be no revolution if I ditch it.

Thanks for correcting my anatomical mistakes regarding the eyes. What I called cornea is actually a transparent layer around the whole eyeball. On V4 this is called EyeSurface. I have no actual cornea at the moment, just two concentric balls with a slight dent at the front on the inner one for the iris and pupil, and a slight protrusion at the front on the outer one. I had a quick look at V3's and V4's eyes. I think they are quite similar to each other structurally, except for that extra layer on V4. I'm happy to take advice on how to rebuild the eyes if necessary. It's easy to do, and can make a huge difference in useability and realism.

You are right about the lashes. There's enough room to have left and right copies on one map, so I can use a single material.

Here's an alternative proposal on the material zones, assuming that I keep the eyes as they are. Call it the minimalist approach. :biggrin:

Map 1 (everything but the face and neck):
  01. SkinBody (includes skull)
  02. Nails

Map 2 (face and neck, including mouth, but not eyes):
  03. SkinFace (includes neck and eye sockets)
  04. Lacrimals (I forgot about those in my earlier post)
  05. Brows
  06. Lips
  07. MouthInner (includes gums and tongue)
  08. Teeth

Map 3 (eyeballs, left and right sharing one map):
  09. EyeWhiteLeft
  10. EyeWhiteRight
  11. IrisLeft
  12. IrisRight
  13. Pupils

Map 4 (transparent layers over eyeballs, ditto):
  14. EyeSurfaceLeft
  15. EyeSurfaceRight

Map 5 (lashes):
  16. Lashes

I've noticed that V4 has the material names prefixed with numbers. I presume those indicate texture overlays. Do people think that's a good practice? I thought it was quite nice to see at one glance what's supposed to be on the same map. Hopefully, they don't have a patent on that or anything. You never know. :biggrin:

BTW, I'm no specialist on Blender, but I believe the limit is 16 materials per object. I assume for most cases one could import the body and the brow, lashes and eyes as two or more objects, in which case my original proposal would still be within the limit.  That said, I'm more than happy to eliminate unnecessary material zones.

I personally don't like the numbers on the V4 map but don't object /strongly/. Scripts might be able to take advantage though of zones named something like Body_Skin, Body_Nails, Head_Face, Head_Lips, Head_Brow, etc.

Something I would look out for is the irises, Many eyes look terrible at oblique angles because the are modeled concave to better catch high-lights in frontal poses, this cause the pupil to look terrible from the-quarter views. The iris is actually flat pretty much I think.Has anyone every tried a fancy cornea with an actual refractive shader so it is "solid" clear rather than a transparent shell.

Quote - Scripts might be able to take advantage though of zones named something like Body_Skin, Body_Nails, Head_Face, Head_Lips, Head_Brow, etc.

Well, "might" just doesn't work with me. :biggrin: Materials in existing figures aren't named that way, so scripts that look for that kind of pattern don't exist, and won't in the foreseeable future. I think unnecessary qualifiers make the material names harder to read. Scripts can be fed lists. It's not like there are thousands of new figures every day.

That refraction thing would indeed be a reason to have a separate cornea. But again with the "might". If no one's ever done it, why not keep the eye simple and let people make their own eye props if they want something more fancy.

Quote - i've noticed that V4 has the material names prefixed with numbers. I presume those indicate texture overlays. Do people think that's a good practice? I thought it was quite nice to see at one glance what's supposed to be on the same map. Hopefully, they don't have a patent on that or anything.

python don't like variable starting with number, the Bagginbill skin shader for Apollo Maximus must have a redefinition of the surfaces when BB adapted it to V4, they are several threads on the RDNA forums about this.

www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php

www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php

Quote - python don't like variable starting with number, the Bagginbill skin shader for Apollo Maximus must have a redefinition of the surfaces when BB adapted it to V4, they are several threads on the RDNA forums about this.

Well, no one forced him to use attributes for the material zone names, did they? It looks like it was just one of those ad hoc design decisions that proved unwise in hindsight. Anyway, he must have fixed it by now, because V4 has been around for some time.

I mean, if people don't like those numbers, that's fine. I thought they might come in handy, but I can take them or leave them. I could use momodot's idea instead, of course: instead of numbers, use prefixes like body_, head_ and eyes_ to indicate the different maps. But I think it would be more confusing than the numbers.

I'll try to put the material names into some logical order for the material room dropdown menu. Apparently, Poser follows the order materials appear in in the .obj file. Ha, maybe I could even introduce dummy materials with names like "---BODY---" and "---HEAD---" in order to structure that menu.

Quote -
Well, no one forced him to use attributes for the material zone names, did they? It looks like it was just one of those ad hoc design decisions that proved unwise in hindsight. Anyway, he must have fixed it by now, because V4 has been around for some time.

this is fixed with a little procedure who redefine the material to an acceptable variable for python :

material -> variable

1_HeadSkin -> HeadSkin
Skin-Body -> SkinBody

since bagginsbill replaced  the AMUCSS with the VSS who work on almost any figure i think this is not a problem anymore, and if people want to use the old AMUCSS they have the V4 version to see how to handle this

Quote -
Incidentally, does anyone know how Poser orders the material zones in its dropdown menues? From what I'm seeing, it's not the order they appear in the .obj file. It would be nice to be able to put things into some logical order.

AFAIK this is the material order in the cr2 who is taken in the menu, with maybe the Preview always moved to the last position, you may try to edit some cr2 to confirm this

Having those numbers in fromt of the material zones can be pretty useful, especially when exporting to another application.

I think I like the minimalist approach you posted best. Your names look fine to me. I especially like how you added Nails in front of toe>fingers. I don't really see the advantage of adding numbers in front. It's actually mildy annoying to look at ( my brain wants to look for Skin,Nails,Eyes etc.) and the numbers get in the way. Doesn't really matter I guess.

I think maybe you should add a true cornea. I don't really see the point of a full eye surface ( is it for teary eyed shaders and such?)

You are correct about Blender only allowing 16 materials. I think they may allow for more in a future release because it's one of the main things on people's wishlist and complained about often.

Quote - > Quote -

Incidentally, does anyone know how Poser orders the material zones in its dropdown menues? From what I'm seeing, it's not the order they appear in the .obj file. It would be nice to be able to put things into some logical order.

AFAIK this is the material order in the cr2 who is taken in the menu, with maybe the Preview always moved to the last position, you may try to edit some cr2 to confirm this

Sorry, I should have just checked that before I posted (see my edit). It does in fact seem as if Poser displays the materials in the same order as it finds them. I inserted some dummy 'usemtl' statements into the .obj file, and that changed the order in the material room menu. I'd have to check that with other versions of Poser, of course. I only have P6 installed at the moment.

Quote -
I think maybe you should add a true cornea. I don't really see the point of a full eye surface ( is it for teary eyed shaders and such?)

I got that from a book. I think the reasoning there was that putting a reflective layer over the complete eyeball would make it easier to achieve that wet look that eyes require to look real. I think it makes sense, but I haven't spent a lot of time trying to make eyes look real in Poser. Anyway, BlackEyes use the same approach, and many people seem to like them.

Proposal: if someone knows how to build the perfect eyes for Poser, don't just explain but send them to me as props. If I'm convinced, I'll use them for Antonia. :biggrin: As the book I mentioned above says: eyes are easy to make and hard to make right.

Hi people. Great stuff here. Many good replies. I'm going to chime in just to confirm some stuff I liked. Sorry if I don't go back and credit each original poster.

A zone for lips to help Daz users - makes sense. Even more sense, however, is the idea that the lip zone should actually be more than the lip, so the lip/skin boundary is not on the zone boundary. Brilliant - that would solve all the problems with hard edges. But I think that the lip zone gets mis-used by a lot of people so that they can just crank up the glossy on that zone and they just don't care about the transition.

In reality - one zone or two - just doesn't matter to me anymore I guess. With VSS, I can handle a two-zone face just as easily as a one-zone face. Makes no difference anymore.

As for combinations of lip color and other makeup colors, I hear what you're saying, but I still don't need combinations of color maps for that, regardless of how many face zones there are. Instead, I use overlays and blend them. In my opinion, there is no reason to have lipstick or eyeshadow on your skin maps AT ALL. Even if you have only one zone for the whole figure, if you have a mask (similar to a transmap) to drive a Blender node, you can overlay other color maps on any sub-section of the figure (lips, iris, nipples) . I understand you can't do that in DS, so additional zones help there, but those additional zones are only going to be effective if the zone boundary exceeds the interesting subset boundary, so that the skin can blend smoothly. If you want, for example, to swap out a different nipple color, but the nipple zone does not extend out into clear skin, then you've wasted your time with creating that zone.

On the subject of cornea, I have demonstrated several times that a flat iris and a refracting cornea is very effective. I don't have the renders handy, but I did V3 eyes that way years ago and they were stunning. If you only render frontal portraits, you don't care, but from other angles it is a very big difference.

I do not like the eye surface thing. First of all, the claim that it is easier to set up the shine across the whole eye doesn't hold water for me, because I need different characteristics. The sclera is bumpy, while the cornea is absolutely smooth. So i need bump mapping on one but not the other. This is very easy to do when they are different material zones. Second, I want to use refraction on the cornea. If the cornea is combined with the super-thin layer of water of the sclera, I sometimes get problems because Poser doesn't like to do refraction on super thin layers. And this forces refraction to be involved for the entire eye, which is computationally expensive. It's better to limit the refraction to the cornea.

For free VSS, I have not given you guys the 100% realistic eyes yet, so you're not seeing the problems I'm talking about. In order to do 100% realism with that eye surface thing, I have to have a custom mask based on the UV of the character to drive the differences between the cornea and the wet layer on the sclera.

Having said that, the reality is that with Poser shaders, i can make it do the right thing no matter which way you go with zones and surfaces, as long as everything is UV mapped, including the cornea area.

Regarding the material zone numbers...

Quite right - my decision to use material names as object attribute names in matmatic was not forced. In the end, it was fairly straightforward to add a mapping rule. Any material zone name beginning with digits follows by an underscore are now handled correctly by matmatic (the copy I have, not the copy you guys have) I simply ignore the digits and underscore.

With VSS, no name restrictions exist. You can entirely use punctuation, for all I care.  However, having sensible keywords within the name helps VSS a lot to auto-sense what the zone is for. For example, a few figures tricked me (and VSS) with names like Gland. That is skin. If it had been called GlandSkin, VSS would have worked automatically even if I had never seen the "Gland" part before.

DId I see a zone for fingernails and a zone for toenails in the last posting or not? I think some people may want to be able to have different colors there.

The iris and pupil together would simply be a flat disk, right? In the current eye, I made the iris the tiniest bit concave and the pupil a bit convex to make up for it (see picture). That seems to look better in side views when not using a refractive cornea, so I guess it might benefit the DS and P4 users. Do you think it would still work with the refractive one?

I would probably make the cornea and sclera from a single sphere so that they'll have matching normals. Do you want the cornea slightly protruded like in real eyes or do you prefer a perfect sphere?

Do you think the lip zone as in the picture is large enough to allow for blending, or should I include the next ring of polygons?

I had only one nails material in that last proposal, but I agree that it's probably better to have separate ones for fingers and toes.

the iris is slightly inset from the sclera.  in real life, shadows have no bias.  so that slight inset means that there is a darker area on the iris underneath reflections/highlights, a lighter area opposite it, and a shadow from the eyelid.  and the iris looks the way it does from the side mainly because of refraction. 

people make the iris concave because most renderers can't render an eye correctly.  i once saw an eye doctor of some sort try to get a properly structured eye to render properly in Poser and completely fail due to problems with how Poser renders refraction.  that was a P5 or P6, iirc.  if anyone can, bagginsbill can, though i'm just not sure it's possible.

at one point i had a bunch of photo references showing the shadow/highlight effect.  i don't now, but if you have a nice directional light and a mirror, you'll be able to observe it in your own eyes.  oddly, you can also see it in how people draw eyes in cartoons.  the benefit to looking a toon is that you can see the different shading zones in a simplified shapes.  it's the reason V4's eye's look like doll's eyes, where the more deeply inset Unimesh eyes have more "depth."

Eye cross section diagram

Hmm, interesting points, cobaltdream. There's one thing though that confuses me: I do agree that V3's eyes seem to have more depth, but I just had a look at the mesh and found the iris to be completely flat, whereas V4's is set in quite a bit. So either you mixed up the two, and I need to have my eyes checked (:biggrin:), or there's something else going on, possibly related to the material settings.

Oh, regarding that reflective eye layer thing: I just wondered how to uv-map the eyes if I get rid of it and add a cornea instead. You'd want the sclera texture to blend nicely with the iris, but its normals to match the cornea's. Obviously, that's a bit easier to do when working with two complete layers, so maybe that's why some people use that technique. Just a speculation.

I like her big nose ;) .

Her facial style reminds me of Posette, in a good way. I always liked poor Posette, but she just wasn't versatile enough for my needs.

In the meantime, work on my topology matcher is going well. I can now read and write .obj files and match meshes based on their topologies alone, no matter how the vertices are numbered or what their positions are. Of course if a mesh has symmetries, there will be more than one match, so the next tiny step is to pick the one which leads to the smallest total change in vertex positions. For the moment, I am assuming that the mesh as a whole hasn't been moved around, but if need be, I could take such things into account, too.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't worry. :biggrin: Basically, this tool I am working on will allow me to do crazy things like cut Antonia in half, start making a morph in Wings, cut some pieces off to import into Blender, tweak some more, glue them together with their mirror image, send them back to Wings and put everything back together. As long as the final result has the same topology as the original, I can then restore the numbering of the vertices with my tool and import it as a morph target in Poser. Or I can transfer UV maps I made for the original to the edited mesh, etc.

I'm looking forward to trying some textures on her.
I don't do custom morphs too well yet.

I think that it´s too late to give my opinion.
Antonia is one of the most wonderful figures I ever see. She is very natural and her face is truly casual and beautiful. Her body is amazing!

I think that the way she is mapped could have less seams. Textures Artists don´t like UVs with a lot of seams.
I am creating a very simple figure for Poser and DAZ Studio (she is a female figure and also includes a male morph with conforming male genital).
The maps for my simple figure are the attached images.
If you like the way I am mapping my figure, please feel free to map your figure in a similar way.

This is just a opinion.

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all !!!!!!

Eyes map

Body Map

Face Map

Thanks, 3Dream! I've seen your figure. Nice work!

We could probably talk endlessly about the best way to do UVs, but the important thing for me now is to get my figure ready for release. If the current UVs turn out to be that bad - and I think they don't have that many seams anymore, which have all been placed with some thought - I can give it another try later or find someone more talented than me.

I'll probably buy myself the Blacksmith3D-Paint program, which seems to work well enough under Wine. 3dCoat looks much more advanced, but although I can run the demo, all the buttons are blank and I don't know what I'm supposed to click. I'll keep trying.

Anyway, both those programs are fairly inexpensive and - supposedly - let you paint on 3d surfaces in a natural way. That should make it much easier in the future for texture makers to fix seams and maybe even create their textures in a 3d program in the first place. I may be wrong about this, but I sincerely think that a paradigm shift is fairly close. Who knows, maybe Poser 8 or Poser 9 will already come with a builtin way to paint textures in model space.

Quote -
3dCoat looks much more advanced, but although I can run the demo, all the buttons are blank and I don't know what I'm supposed to click. I'll keep trying.

Strange, 3D-Coat run well on my Ubuntu 8.10 with wine 1.01, work far faster on Linux than Vista on the same computer

I have the version 2.10.05 installed, not tried the 3.0 alpha, but a Linux native version is on work and will come on Q1 2009

Cheers,

Mike.

Quote - > Quote -

3dCoat looks much more advanced, but although I can run the demo, all the buttons are blank and I don't know what I'm supposed to click. I'll keep trying.

Strange, 3D-Coat run well on my Ubuntu 8.10 with wine 1.01, work far faster on Linux than Vista on the same computer

I have the version 2.10.05 installed, not tried the 3.0 alpha, but a Linux native version is on work and will come on Q1 2009

You don't have an ATI card by any chance? Because mine is causing me all kinds of problems that apparently people with NVidia cards don't have. With the latest version of the driver, I can finally run Poser 6 under wine, but with lots of weird, very impractical effects. For example, if I switch desktops during a render, everything that's been rendered before I come back to the Poser desktop is blacked out.

Did you do anything special to get 3D-Coat to run under wine? I still have Ubuntu 8.04, anyway, so maybe it's time to upgrade soon.

I'm very much looking forward to the native Linux version.

Quote - How's this for toe curl? half of it had to be done with a morph since there was no way I could get the smaller toes to curl properly without rigging each one individually. Almost done with the rig just a few JCM's to apply. I have set up hand dials for finger grasp and spread, thumb grasp and curl. I wanted to put in a couple of magnets for the breast and the buttocks but I don't know how.

Cheers,

Mike.

That looks very nice. I think morphs are fine for those toe "gestures". There's really no point in rigging them all individually.

[quote
You don't have an ATI card by any chance? Because mine is causing me all kinds of problems that apparently people with NVidia cards don't have. With the latest version of the driver, I can finally run Poser 6 under wine, but with lots of weird, very impractical effects. For example, if I switch desktops during a render, everything that's been rendered before I come back to the Poser desktop is blacked out.

Did you do anything special to get 3D-Coat to run under wine? I still have Ubuntu 8.04, anyway, so maybe it's time to upgrade soon.

I'm very much looking forward to the native Linux version.

ATI HD 3400 with the proprietary driver, 3D Coat work without any special setting, for Poser Pro i must use SreeD, C4D work but with Software Shading, everything else using OpenGL i have tried don't work (black screen)

Funny, I have the HD 3400, too, only the Mobility version. Proprietary driver, just updated this week. Could you show me your /etc/X11/xorg.conf by any chance? Do you get any 'ole:CoGetClassObject' errors when you run 3D-Coat?

Quote - Funny, I have the HD 3400, too, only the Mobility version. Proprietary driver, just updated this week. Could you show me your /etc/X11/xorg.conf by any chance? Do you get any 'ole:CoGetClassObject' errors when you run 3D-Coat?

i have the HD3400 Mobile too

rjjack@t400 $> wine 3D-CoatGL.exe
fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32f578,0x00000000), stub!
fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),1,0x32f578,0x00000000), stub!
err:ole:CoGetClassObject class {82c5ab54-c92c-4d52-aac5-27e25e22604c} not registered
err:ole:CoGetClassObject class {82c5ab54-c92c-4d52-aac5-27e25e22604c} not registered
err:ole:create_server class {82c5ab54-c92c-4d52-aac5-27e25e22604c} not registered
fixme:ole:CoGetClassObject CLSCTX_REMOTE_SERVER not supported
err:ole:CoGetClassObject no class object {82c5ab54-c92c-4d52-aac5-27e25e22604c} could be created for context 0x17

xorg.conf (X.Org X Window System server configuration file)

This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using

values from the debconf database.

Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page.

(Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.)

This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades only

if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg

package.

Note that some configuration settings that could be done previously

in this file, now are automatically configured by the server and settings

here are ignored.

If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated

again, run the following command:

#   sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg

Section "Monitor"
    Identifier    "Configured Monitor"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier    "Default Screen"
    Monitor        "Configured Monitor"
    Device        "Configured Video Device"
    DefaultDepth    24
EndSection

Section "Module"
    Load    "glx"
EndSection

Section "Device"
    Identifier    "Configured Video Device"
    Driver    "fglrx"
EndSection

Strangeness! The errors I get look exactly the same as yours, except that the address in the first two lines is off by 4.

I thought it might be a font problem, because everything seems to work fine, only that I can't see any text anywhere. But I did a 'winetricks allfonts', and that didn't help.

I added the "Load glx" line to my xorg.conf, but that didn't change anything. I seem to remember vaguely that that module is loaded by default now, anyway.

Well I'll go and google "wine fonts don't show" or something like that. If that doesn't provide any clues, I guess I'll have to wait for the native Linux version.

Back to Antonia:

Shoveling UVs back and forth between programs remains tricky, but I've managed to transfer them to the new mesh with the rebuilt eyes and brows and the one-sided lashes and to remap to closed eyelids without messing up anything important. So it looks as if I may be finalizing the mesh and UVs quite soon.

I'll keep you up to date.

Scale factors:

1 x for body and feet
2 x for hands and skull
4 x for the nails and everything on the face map
4 x vertical and 10 x horizontal for the pink (hey, there was room)

I think the mesh is pretty much done as well. I might still fix one tiny little detail concerning the iris, and of course I need to set up the new material zones.

Ad 1, I finally gave in and moved the face/skull border closer to the hairline. The skull chart should now be a pretty good template for a skull cap, and I might assign it its own material after all, so that people can use it more easily for growing dynamic hair. The skull chart, like the face chart, has no longer any internal seams.

Ad 2, I ditched my original shaped brow mesh and replaced it with a replica of part of the forehead mesh. This is for adding a second layer of brow hairs via a transmap. Matching the original mesh should make it easier to move this along when making morphs. When not used, it can of course be hidden inside the head via the infamous "brows gone" morph.

I also remapped the eye area with the lids closed and removed some remaining overlaps around the lips. But you can't see that here. If anyone's interested, I can post a close-up of the face UVs.

I also made some texture templates, and now I can finally render Antonia with her mesh painted on her skin. :biggrin:

Now I only need to assign the final materials, and I'll have a finished .obj file.

Pretty face, i can't wait to play with her and it's look like this day is coming soon  ;-)

Hard to believe that it's only been a bit more than two months since I started this thread, huh?

A few days ago I had a look at V4, and I have to say if she had been around back in October 2005, I might have never started to build Antonia. The mesh is worlds apart from that terrible uni-mash (:tongue2:), and she has some pretty decent expressions, too. It's a pity they gave her such a weird shape.

So maybe it's a good thing that V4 wasn't around, because I learned a lot working on Antonia.

sure not perfect but I found it gives nice reflections...

Odd, for some reason I haven't been getting my ebots on this. I am soooo looking forward to getting my hands on this model! :)

OT... Pitklad, Nea 2? Is it far enough along for you to post a thread about it as WIP? What are your plans for it?

Attached Link: nea 2

I'll have to make a WIP post you are wright, the last one was more than a year ago!

sorry everyone for posting something not Antonia related

you tease us so with her uv maps can't wait to get my paws on her.

Sorry to be such a tease. :biggrin: I think she should be ready for beta testing very soon now, but I have to wait until phantom3D is satisfied with his rig.

I'm pretty much done, all thats left is to add the toe curl morphs to the final mesh.

Ex-cellent! :handrub:

Your model looks very promising -- and you did that all on Wings3D, it must be good.  :woot:

It's guys like you that keeps me inspired. 

I, too, can't wait to see Antonia.

Have a good one,

:m_drool: I can't wait to see her either, you looking for testers? While I am testing I could even possible make some clothing also.

Quote - Odd, for some reason I haven't been getting my ebots on this. I am soooo looking forward to getting my hands on this model! :)

I have not been get bots on her either :m_confused2:
There are other threads that I got the bots on but not this thread.

Awesome Character,Can't wait to see the finished product:)