Pirate Bay founders have been jailed. The next logical step might be to go after folk who have downloaded stuff.

If you have illegaly downloaded, you might want to pop a hammer through your hard drive so you can sleep at night.

If you have pirated dark Anvil products, we'll forgive you if you get on Rendo quick and buy the official product.

With piracy on the decrease we may be able to make new and inventive models for the wider community to use. Our modellers are all here but we have to sadly keep them occupied on no for download jobs.

We look forward to the day when we can upload on a regular basis again.

Many many thankls to our legit customers at Renderosity.

News story here

But piratbay org is still alive ?????

Yes, they are in denial. when they come out in a year they'll go straight back in if they aren't careful.

Folks use piratebay at extreme risk now. If it carries on the authorities will no doubt get access to user info.

but only if you download something that is illegal right? if you download a free program from there then you will not go to jail right? 

I think the problem with PIRATEbay (the clue is in the name) is that you can't be sure the free stuff hasn't been ripped off.

I would not know as I have never been. Mrsparky spots our stuff on there and request removals. Most of our stuff has been up at some point.

Safer just not to visit the site.

whilst I sympathise with (and defend) merchants who have been victimised by warez d00dz, I just wanted to mention (in case this thread is deleted or moved) that:

• it's accusatory in nature, implying some of these users are thieves
• it's giving free publicity to a warez site about which there are no previous posts here AFAIK

Quote - Pirate Bay founders have been jailed. The next logical step might be to go after folk who have downloaded stuff.

If you have illegaly downloaded, you might want to pop a hammer through your hard drive so you can sleep at night.

If you have pirated dark Anvil products, we'll forgive you if you get on Rendo quick and buy the official product.

With piracy on the decrease we may be able to make new and inventive models for the wider community to use. Our modellers are all here but we have to sadly keep them occupied on no for download jobs.

We look forward to the day when we can upload on a regular basis again.

Many many thankls to our legit customers at Renderosity.

News story here

I'm not sure I do understand.... you're not releasing items because someone is giving away your stuff somewhere? Since when is that reason to not release more items? I've seen some of my creations pirated, but that doesn't stop me from creating and releasing new stuff.

I do think that those people who do download pirated items, will not buy the items anyway. Not saying it's right, but even if there wasn't any site around where they could download, they still would not buy the items. I don't think you will see any increase because of pirate sites getting busted.

I refuse to let pirates influence or even take over my conduct. If my products aren't selling, I'm not going to blame pirates for that and punish my loyal customers because of others behaviour. That would be so wrong. If my stuff isn't selling, there always are other reasons, pirates are never one of them.

Frankly I find this disturbing as a dangerous precident! Jailing the site admin's for making it possible to do something illegal, even though they themselves had done nothing illegal, is like jailing an auto dealer for making something that drunk drivers use to kill people with, or gun manufacturers, or hell, the whole internet period! It's like saying all DVD Recorder manufacturers should be jailed for making something people can make copies with!! Who's next to go to jail? Frankly I find anyone who celebrate's this as a victory to be a bit blinded by their own greed to the actual loss to freedom this will cause.

Quote - I think the problem with PIRATEbay (the clue is in the name) is that you can't be sure the free stuff hasn't been ripped off.

I would not know as I have never been. Mrsparky spots our stuff on there and request removals. Most of our stuff has been up at some point.

Safer just not to visit the site.

Yea, it happens to most vendors whom make anything good. It's almost a measure of success of the product.  LOL, in my case, the itrems have about twice as many downloads as they do sales... But I don't believe a lot of those would be sales to start with. I didn't see a sharp decline in sales once it hit the warez.

Lot of warez downloaders are in a major compulsion mode, and never actually get to use the item. ...and if they do use it, I hope they give me merchant credit, to help advertise my stuff.

With pirating, as soon as one site or method gets squashed, another one pops up.

There is a way to stop all illegal downloads, put a hidden personal serial number in each product. then track who uploaded it.

I don't care for the accusatory tone used in the opening statement, and as such, I don't think I want to buy from the merchant that started this topic.

Quote - whilst I sympathise with (and defend) merchants who have been victimised by warez d00dz, I just wanted to mention (in case this thread is deleted or moved) that: - it's accusatory in nature, implying some of these users are thieves

• it's giving free publicity to a warez site about which there are no previous posts here AFAIK

True ... I have never heard of the site... but again I do not look for these sites.

I'm not sure I do understand.... you're not releasing items because someone is giving away your stuff somewhere? Since when is that reason to not release more items?

HI ailkema

As well as doing our own, we give work to other modellers and pay them up front for the work, so when some poeple are putting up the models in file sharing sites, it takes us longer to get the money back, so we can't give the guys new work to do.

It's just a bit sad for them really.**
**

This looks more like self advertising then pirating issues. Those freaks that share stuff among each other don`t hurt you a bit. I doubt they care what they DL and who is author of  what.

People are divided into those who like to have legit stuff and those that would never spend any money on anything. If you buying regularly on MP, why the hell would you go to pirate site and DL pirated stuff. Is that make sense to you, it sure does not to me.

Tihomir

Quote -
With piracy on the decrease we may be able to make new and inventive models for the wider community to use. Our modellers are all here but we have to sadly keep them occupied on no for download jobs.

Operators are standing by, and if you act right now, you will also receive....

Well, the whole thing seems to be centered around the entertainment industry, once again, so I wouldn't jump up and down for joy thinking software piracy has seen its last days. far from that, I'm sure. And music and movie piracy is never going away. You can try to use a few people to set an example, but this was just a token gesture, and they have now been made digital martyrs.

An earlier article I had read stated that the Swedish government didn't really want to prosecute the case, but did so out of pressure from the entertainment industry. Where are the software companies? Why aren't Autodesk and Adobe out there twisting arms?

Quote -
If you have illegaly downloaded, you might want to pop a hammer through your hard drive so you can sleep at night.

That has got to be the stupidest thing I've read all week.

Some of the people who make software of any sort may think they are joyously anticipating the day when people should have to genuinely worry about such things happening, like the Black Ops showing up in the middle of the night to take your hard drive and arrest you...

We have piracy because we have freedoms and rights to privacy. The only way they will ever make a serious dent in piracy is to remove those freedoms and rights. I don't write or sell software, but I'd gladly deal with the piracy factor if the only alternative was to have to worry if I somehow end up on some government organization's search list.

ive been saying this for years: i think a much better approach to counteracting piracy is to offer your customers a quality product backed up by excellent customer service. it builds customer satisfaction and loyalty, and customers will want to buy your products.

the entire 'my product has been downloaded 10,000 times, sells for $15, so i have lost $150,000 in revenue' is an idiotic fallacy because it assumes that each of those people would have actually rushed to the store and purchased your product had it not been available as warez.

if you have a week to spare, you will do better in both the short and long term to spend that week making a free update for one of your products to make your existing customers happy than you would spending it filing rapidshare copyright infringement notices, especially considering that it takes you 10x as long to file one than it does for them to just reupload it anonymously.

Hopefully the OP will read Blackhearted's words and really comprehend them.  You have not lost ONE sale due to warez because the people that download warez would never have purchased it from you. 

I doubt your posts to tihs thread did much to increase your sales.

If I may be frank, Magicmoon, I think the OP might have even alienated his/her/its/their pirates.

Besides  In real terms shutting down "pirate bay" is like like killing ONE individual CockRoach on your kitchen floor and declaring a major "victory"
when you still have a major infestation inside your walls unchecked.

Well the whole thing aint over yet, it is going to be take to the highest instance of the swedish court. And it can take years...and there is also a chance they will take it to the EU court. 

I'm not sure if the founders will be jailed right away, or they will wait to hear with the highest court will say. Oh and beside the jail, the 4 men is suppose to pay 30 mil swedish kronor...wich is a extrem high sum of money every been judge by a swedish court...but then again, it aint over yet.

I think that actual, or potential losses are impossible to quantify though I doubt that most of the cracked copies of Max. Maya etc. downloaded are sales that never happened. OTOH, it's possible that a few people woh snagged a Poser item of P2P might have coughed up $10-$15 to pay for it if there were no other alternative. That's not even petty cash to Daz, much less AutoDesk but I'm sure it means something to a small vendor.

I'll chalk up the tone in DA's original post to frustration. Still, the folks likely to commit mayhem on their hard drives in response probably couldn't find TPB with Google and a flashlight. The fear and shame tactic might be popular with the MPAA/RIAA, but I'd think about asking how it's working for them before I used it on the folks who might be naturally sympathetic to my cause.

Somewhat OT, a few years ago, I reported a site to Daz that was promoting dozens of pirated pieces of Daz content. I received a nice two line 'Thank you for supporting Daz,' response. Now I know that virtue is it's own reward and it was selfish of me to expect even a $10 gift certificate in return but I can only assume that in their eyes none of those downloads amounted to a sales loss. The site was taken down though.

 the 30 million SEK is insane anyway. Where were they supposed to go dig up that kind of money? So they can't obviously pay and then what? Force them into slavery for the rest of their natural lives? It's silly. While I understnad the Swedish court wanted to set an example, any fines in these sizes are simply silly. It's so much money most people can't even imagine it.

Apart from that, I agree with MatrixWorks. The whole trial is dangerous. In Danish TV they made a quick Google search, and lo and behold: Tons of torrents popped up. So what's next? Someone sue Google for providing links to warez? It's supposedly easy enough to find warez on Google although of course more specialized search engines are probably better for it.

Personally I've never really figured out how this torrent thing works. I installed something way back when ReBirth (music making thing) was given away free from the manufacurers and that required a torrent-something-program but I've never used it since. I don't know what to look for L but I won't have any sleepless nights over anyone downloading my products for free (and I know that on one of the sites where I sell, the owner DO track down torrents of the things he sell, so I also know my stuff is out there) - again it's not lost sales, it's added exposure. When somone steals your product and then upload a picture anywhere.. other will see it and chances are at least SOME of them are honest enough to go and buy it L

And to the OP.. sorry. You just lost any future sales from me. I do not like to be called a potential thief like that.

Quote - You just lost any future sales from me. I do not like to be called a potential thief like that.

I've read and reread DA's original post.  I must be missing something because I don't see anywhere where he is claiming everyone here to be "potential thieves".   

He did thank their legitimate customers here at Renderosity, but that is by no means accusing everyone here of being a thief.    People who download illegal content still require help and knowledge to use that content, so yes, there are users here that do pirate but also browse the MP and read the forums, just like they do at other sites.  But again, that is not accusing everyone of being a thief, just those that read it and know they are using illegally obtained content.

Thanks Acadia.

The reaction has been an eye opener.

 Right. Perhaps not outright, but the whole tone was extremely accusatory in a way that got my hackles up. And from the reaction of others here, I wasn't the only one to go WTF?! at that tone.

I'm not condoning warezing, but I absolutely do NOT like the fact that you can jail someone for something OTHER people did. All things being equal, there were NO FILES shared on Pirate Bay by the owners it's like jailing anyone with MSN Messenger or other kinds of P2P networks just because they CAN be used for something like filesharing.

And I see no reason to applaud that.

In the end the whole issue is a drop of water on a hot stone but truly, even if the guys do not end up having to pay the fine, and don't go to jail, I still agree with the government. Having dragged them to court may really just be symbolic but I do believe that we will see more cases like this in the future and I can not say I feel sorry for people getting what is coming to them.

Because bottomline is you don't steel from others, be it virtual or real goods makes no difference to me, stealing is against the law and should be punished.

As for jailing the operators of pirate bay being unjust, I really don't think so.
And I kinda see it like them helping to distribute stolen property, in  the US if you do so knowingly that will land you in jail just as much as as stealing the stuff to begin with, and when I lived in Germany and worked there that was the same case and I can not imagine Sweden is much different but I'll ask my friend who works law enforcement in Sweden.
Now I will not believe, not even for one moment that the founders and operators did not know what was being shared on the network, and ignorance is no excuse, they provided a platform for people to meet and commit copyright crimes on and did not cease operations or find a way to ensure that people did not use their site to "fence off stolen goods".

As much this whole trial may be symbolic and we are very very far from a real solution crime should not be condoned nor supported. And to me it doesn't matter if you steal from big companies like EA-Games, Sony Music or Renderosity vendors, someone spent real work into making whatever was stolen and therefor deserve every cent in potential revenue. They also do not deserve to be stolen from at no time. And yes they may not be losing sales because the warezing scumbags never intended to legally purchase the product but stealing is still a crime and they should bring down the hammer much harder and more often.

Quote - If you have pirated dark Anvil products, we'll forgive you if you get on Rendo quick and buy the official product.

This topic is one worth discussing.
Where this train derails for me is the above quote.

now would probably be a good time to lock the thread (already ran longer than I would have let it)...

Blackhearted:

Quote - ive been saying this for years: i think a much better approach to counteracting piracy is to offer your customers a quality product backed up by excellent customer service. it builds customer satisfaction and loyalty, and customers will want to buy your products.

QFT.  Customer service can't be stolen while being a derriere of a vendor coughEAcough will drive people to pirate your things just because they hate you.

Quote - the entire 'my product has been downloaded 10,000 times, sells for $15, so i have lost $150,000 in revenue' is an idiotic fallacy because it assumes that each of those people would have actually rushed to the store and purchased your product had it not been available as warez.

I can't disagree with that either.  People usually have a higher standard of things they have to buy than they do of things they can get free.  And on rare occasion it works the other way.  There are a few people out there who will buy after they try.  I don't agree with their actions but I also recognize there is a tiny fraction of people that do that.

Acadia, the OP also came off a little harsh and accusing.  Frankly I also thought he was using this event as an excuse to advertise.  I don't know what he sells, but part of me also doesn't care too much to find out.

Quote - Personally I've never really figured out how this torrent thing works. I installed something way back when ReBirth (music making thing) was given away free from the manufacurers and that required a torrent-something-program but I've never used it since.

Bittorrent is a mechanism for transferring files in a way that saves bandwidth for the person offering it and in many cases increasing download speed for clients. The trick it uses is that users downloading data do not all have to connect to the same server but also can connect to each other. Imagine five users from Australia are downloading the same file from a computer in Norway: Instead of sending the same data five times all the way around the globe, the data has to travel the full distance only once and then four more times across Australia.

Bittorrent, being just a tool, does not imply illegal use. Most GNU/Linux distributions offer Bittorrent downloads to save bandwidth and on the official Bittorrent.com site there is lots of100% legal content from the big boys (FOX, WB, Sega, etc). Bittorrent has many uses that have nothing to do with piracy whatsoever.

Quote - Bittorrent is a mechanism for transferring files in a way that saves bandwidth for the person offering it and in many cases increasing download speed for clients.

Luxology offer a torrents as well as regular downloads for Modo.

I thought of using torrents in the past to distribute some of my own freebies.

Also, I wondered what would happen if I released my own product as a torrent and said... free to try, but if you want to use it, make renders with it, get updates and customer support, come and buy it!

I'd probably have a lot of very puzzled people on my hands! LOL...

I agree with blackhearted though, I think soft approach is better... for my sanity too. Some people will rip you off no matter what. I'm going to try the best I can to focus on those whom won't.

Quote - As for jailing the operators of pirate bay being unjust, I really don't think so.
And I kinda see it like them helping to distribute stolen property, in  the US if you do so knowingly that will land you in jail just as much as as stealing the stuff to begin with, and when I lived in Germany and worked there that was the same case and I can not imagine Sweden is much different but I'll ask my friend who works law enforcement in Sweden.
Now I will not believe, not even for one moment that the founders and operators did not know what was being shared on the network, and ignorance is no excuse, they provided a platform for people to meet and commit copyright crimes on and did not cease operations or find a way to ensure that people did not use their site to "fence off stolen goods".

I'ms sorry but by that logic they should have outlawed Pawnbrokering years ago! And yet Pawnshops still exist all across the USA  and continue to sell "HOT" merchandise! On top of that, what with all the high prices on metal these days, Metal buyers in my city have all been forced to record all of their buyers because with all the forclosures, vacant homes are being stripped of their copper wire and tubing across the city. We can't jail the metal merchants for providing an outlet to theives to sell stolen metal!

It is interesting that this newsbreak coincides with the Entertainment story of the pirated copies of the incomplete Wolverine movie with Hugh Jackman.  The MPA is hopping mad over it's one month early release onto the internet and has vowed retribution.  Let's see if the perpetrator who initiated this gets finally caught.

Quote -
I'ms sorry but by that logic they should have outlawed Pawnbrokering years ago! And yet Pawnshops still exist all across the USA  and continue to sell "HOT" merchandise! On top of that, what with all the high prices on metal these days, Metal buyers in my city have all been forced to record all of their buyers because with all the forclosures, vacant homes are being stripped of their copper wire and tubing across the city. We can't jail the metal merchants for providing an outlet to theives to sell stolen metal!

I know it's hard to catch it, but I thought people and merchants do get in trouble when they get caught selling stolen goods.

I thought pawn brokers have to keep a list of everything they buy, can't sell things right away, and hand anything questionable over to the cops.

The "Big three" could learn a thing or two from ya blackhearted. :lol:

Quote - > Quote -

I'ms sorry but by that logic they should have outlawed Pawnbrokering years ago! And yet Pawnshops still exist all across the USA  and continue to sell "HOT" merchandise! On top of that, what with all the high prices on metal these days, Metal buyers in my city have all been forced to record all of their buyers because with all the forclosures, vacant homes are being stripped of their copper wire and tubing across the city. We can't jail the metal merchants for providing an outlet to theives to sell stolen metal!

I know it's hard to catch it, but I thought people and merchants do get in trouble when they get caught selling stolen goods.

They only get into trouble if they don't have records of Who they bought from. This same rule should apply to peer sharing sites. You don't see Pawn Broker's being hauled off in droves for selling stolen merchandise because they keep records of who they buy what from and the cops then go get the theives and NOT the merchants. The same should apply to internet file sharing sites. They should be forced to keep records of who is sharing what. Plain and Simple.

Maybe it's just me... and it could be just me, 'cause I tend to be the blue orange in the apple tree :p -- but I didn't for a moment gather anything accusatory in Dark_Anvil's post. I saw only a merchant who rejoiced (perhaps very prematurely), about a verdict against enablers of illegal file trading.

And when I read, "...If you have pirated dark Anvil products, we'll forgive you if you get on Rendo quick and buy the official product...", I remembered reading about Curious Lab's Poser 4 Amnesty Upgrade for those who had "a questionable Poser serial number of any origin".

(Article here, archive of Curious Lab's page here).

Dark_Anvil's tactic seemed the same to me.

Lastly, it's a fallacy to believe that warez doesn't hurt vendors' sales. Think about it: pirated items were bought by someone out there...

Do you really think if such a person has an item in his/her cart, he/she will still buy it once they see it at a warez site?

Quote -
Do you really think if such a person has an item in his/her cart, he/she will still buy it once they see it at a warez site?

That's a kind of dismal outlook, don't you think? Not a particularly fair generalization, either.
Do you think that everybody who finds a wallet with money in it is going to keep it?
Do you think everybody goes to the warez sites?

Quote -
Lastly, it's a fallacy to believe that warez doesn't hurt vendors' sales. Think about it: pirated items were bought by someone out there...

That doesn't make any sense, and it certainly does nothing to discredit the allegation people might not have bought the stuff in the first place. Think about it: The pirated item was in fact bought at one time or another by someone, but that doesn't automatically mean that everyone who sees it would have bought it anyway.
And I'm not so sure some of the merchants themselves don't "pirate" their own stuff. If I were a merchant I might just do that, to get a product with a Read Me in it out there and some good free exposure. The Poser stuff is relatively cheap. If some warez  kiddie wants something he can't find for free he may very well buy it. So in a perverse sort of way, the pirated products are their own form of advertising.

Sort of like max, maya, and so on. I've read a whole lot of stories of how students or poor amateurs used pirated versions of software and went on to by it later. That's not the same thing, but it's along similar lines.

"Do you really think if such a person has an item in his/her cart, he/she will still buy it once they see it at a warez site?"

Quote - That's a kind of dismal outlook, don't you think? Not a particularly fair generalization, either.

Do you think that everybody who finds a wallet with money in it is going to keep it?
Do you think everybody goes to the warez sites?

MikeJ, you didn't understand what I meant. My statements were connected, ("pirated items were bought by someone out there" -- and -- "Do you really think if such a person...."
Such a person referred directly to those who pirate. Some pirates buy items and share them.

So... my point was about **SUCH **a person that buys AND shares item. If someone pirates items though they still make purchases, would you think they wouldn't hesitate also to download something without paying for it?

I NEVER generalized. I NEVER said "everybody goes to warez sites."
Dude, I was talking ONLY about people who already DO go to warez sites!

"Lastly, it's a fallacy to believe that warez doesn't hurt vendors' sales. Think about it: pirated items were bought by someone out there.."

Quote - That doesn't make any sense, and it certainly does nothing to discredit the allegation people might not have bought the stuff in the first place.

It only makes no sense to you because you didn't understand what I was saying.
I never addressed the allegation of people who didn't buy an item in the first place.
I was, however, stating the obvious, which is that some who DO purchase are pirating items they purchased.

Some time ago, a vendor here linked to a warez site in which many people were requesting and buying items for each other. Point and case. Oh, and at that same site the vendor linked to, I saw several posts in which people expressed that an item was 'in [their] cart', and now they were saving money thanks to the great uploader.

So when I say warez sometimes hurts sales -- it wasn't a random guess.

Quote - Think about it: The pirated item was in fact bought at one time or another by someone, but that doesn't automatically mean that everyone who sees it would have bought it anyway.

I never said that everyone who sees it would have bought it.
Some who would have bought it sometimes choose not to when they find it 'freely' available.

You have derived many generalizations from my post that I neither implied nor directly stated.
I was speaking only about a very specific issue regarding purchasers who pirate.

Hope that's clear to you now.

Blackhearted's post was very accurate and my perspective on this I am still totally in the consumer stage-  I don't sell, i only download freebies and buy stuff.
I just bought blackhearted's Proluma2 lights  ( which BTW  kick some serious ASS)

and my point as strictly a consumer is:  while i could wait for Proluma2 to end up on ISOhunt or something, I would feel like a douche getting it there and then  not being able to ask him for help on it, or talk to all of you about HOW F***ing GREAT it is because i would have to hide in the shadows like a goddam  thief

Quote -
Hope that's clear to you now.

Yeah, that's understood now. Actually I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff, figured I'd check my email and saw your post via Mr Ebot. So I really wasn't paying close attention and my mind was elsewhere.

I'm not sure I agree with you though. Some nagging thing tells me I don't but I'm still distracted and your earlier reply is on the previous page, and I gotta get outta here now. ;-)

Quote - Yeah, that's understood now. Actually I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff, figured I'd check my email and saw your post via Mr Ebot. So I really wasn't paying close attention and my mind was elsewhere.

I'm not sure I agree with you though. Some nagging thing tells me I don't but I'm still distracted and your earlier reply is on the previous page, and I gotta get outta here now. ;-)

Well, you're not the only distracted one! lol
I have a lot on my mind today, so maybe I wasn't absolutely clear in my 1st post here. I wouldn't doubt for a second that I couldn't have been more coherent. :p

So.... lol.... don't worry about my post. : ) There are far more important things in life than my rambling thoughts. :P

And I could have shortly summed up my gist by saying this: it made me sad when I saw people saying certain items were in their carts, but they were [saved from buying them] because someone posted it. :(

Those same people then wonder why a vendor they admire stops selling...

Quote - Sort of like max, maya, and so on. I've read a whole lot of stories of how students or poor amateurs used pirated versions of software and went on to by it later. That's not the same thing, but it's along similar lines.

A pirated copy of "the big apps" usually hurts the little guys. Anyone using a pirated 3ds max is someone not using a legit copy of Carrara, Truespace, Real3d or Blender, programs that the student could easily afford.

Quote - >>I'm not sure I do understand.... you're not releasing items because someone is giving away your stuff somewhere? Since when is that reason to not release more items?

HI ailkema

As well as doing our own, we give work to other modellers and pay them up front for the work, so when some poeple are putting up the models in file sharing sites, it takes us longer to get the money back, so we can't give the guys new work to do.

It's just a bit sad for them really.**
**

Pirate sites will not really hurt your business at all, people going there will not even have the intention to buy the items they do download. It has no influence on your business at all.  So it doesn't take you any longer to get your money back from models with or without pirate sites. To be honest, you're giving them way to much credit.

Perhaps your modelers are to expensive and you should start looking for others that do the same for less. Also keep in mind that you're operating in a small market with some good competition. The genre you focus on has quite some competition and in a small market that's never good.

It's not the pirates that are your problem at all, you should start looking at other reasons. The market you operate on isn't the one that's being destroyed by pirates. It's being destroyed by way to many merchants focussing on the same things. I can only spent my money once. With the huge selection of for example medieval style buildings I will buy the best possible for the best price. I can get much better quality then your what your store offers for paying a little more. So I'll go for the better stuff, if not the best. It's as simple as that. Nothing to do with pirates it's all in demand and supply. The supply is overcrowding the demand in the poser market. Unless you create something outstanding or something innovative & original you cannot really make the sales you wish to make.

I'll share something with you here.
My computer went boom a while ago. I couldn't get back into windows.
So I was faced with a reinstall. I went to do this and discovered my Win Ultimate 64 bit DVD has a scratch.
So, since Brother dear, who bought a 3 pack by accident, sent me the DVD (and license), I went to order the 64bit DVD (media only) from Microsoft, and it won't let me.
I call them, thinking there is a glitch, because they clearly say the retail version (which is what I have, box and all) is entitled to a DVD replacement / alternate DVD.
Well, despite confirming I have the legal copy -- they refused to send me the media for the 64 bit version, saying the retail version comes with both the 32bit and the 64bit. (Bear in mind my 64 bit copy has a scratch and that's why I need a replacement DVD.)
I told the guy so. He tells me no, I can't have a replacement DVD, I need to go back to the retailer to send it to me. (????)
I tell him I wasn't the one who bought it, my brother bought a 3 pack of Vista Ultimate and gave me a copy for my birthday, so I have no idea who the retailer would be.
He says he knows nothing about a 3 pack and I would have to go back to my brother and ask.
That's all well and good, but my brother works the Motorcycle GP circuit and he's not home until... some time in June and the earliest I will possibly see him is July, when he's in the UK. Chances of him getting the right copy to me are nil. He's just too busy.
Told the guy that, as well, and asked WHY, since I have a legal copy, and he determined it is a LEGAL licence, can I not get a replacement DVD from MS? "It's not coming up on my order page" he says. (That's their problem, not mine, I mean come on...!)
I ask him again if he is satisfied it is the proper license and he says yes. I say so I should be entitled to a replacement, but you're saying I'm not and I should have the 64bit DVD already, which yes, I DO, but it's SCRATCHED, which is why I need a replacement.
He insisted I get my brother to send me the 64 bit version, no matter how much I explained what the deal is with the scratched DVD, and that my brother is nowhere near home for the next few months.
His suggestion?
"Can't you get a friend make a copy of the DVD for you?"
I said "No, that's why I came to MICROSOFT, to order a new DVD, because mine is SCRATCHED and won't run!"
"You could download the repair disk" he says.
bangs head on table What makes him think I didn't already try that, and how is that solving my problem of the scratched DVD, which I can't use to reinstall properly?
I said to him I'm not surprised people rip off the software, if this is what a customer who faithfully bought the full version (not an upgrade, but the full version!) is subjected to.
Absolutely disgraceful.
And as far as I am aware, you are not allowed to copy the DVD and give it to someone else, yet that is what the MS customer "service" (and I use that term very lightly) suggested to me.
Once I work out what will, and what won't run on Ubuntu... and if I can use it easily... MS will never see me again.
Because of the DVD.
And yet, they scream and rant about piracy.
Well, I'm sorry. I have no sympathy anymore, not after that. If you go to any other software manufacturer and ask for a replacement DVD in the format you are ENTITLED to from your purchase, they don't give you this kind of run around. (I've had DVDs and CDs replaced before, and never had this problem. They look at the license and registration, and will send it to you.
Not MS.
Buyer beware.

Could Poser Pro work on a Ubuntu system?  I've been thinking of upgrading from my XP system, but frankly Vista scares me.
DPH

I've been running Poser 7 in Ubuntu for over a year - pretty much on a daily basis.
I see no reason why Poser Pro would be so different as not to run. There are some quirks, sure, but then again there are some quirks in Poser regardless of what the platform.

Quote -
Could Poser Pro work on a Ubuntu system?  I've been thinking of upgrading from my XP system, but frankly Vista scares me.

Why would Vista scare you? All of the problems people have with Vista stem from either poor hardware or lack of understanding of the tools such as UAC and Ready Boost and Superfetch.
Or all of the above.

But Vista as an operating system is rock solid, and particularly the 64 bit version runs all my apps better, faster, and more efficiently, particularly if you're loaded to the gills with RAM and have new, high quality hardware. That's the real problem - in discussions with people who have Vista trouble, you often discover they're trying to use crap hardware from 1977.  ;-)

Now's not a time to be updating to Vista anyway though, with Windows 7 on the near horizon, which will be all the good things about Vista, but with more improvements.

Anyhow, I had Ubuntu on a different PC for a while, and as 12 Rounds said, yeah at least Poser 7 worked OK. I never really put it to any real tests though, since I really only wanted to learn the O/S, not use it for graphics.