Quote - the render doesnt fit with the post if i am honest.i know that posing,lighting and a quality render takes time. but this is not the best that poser can do. and lets hope that the guy doesnt think that this is the best.

But that is why I took NO time to prepare. The claim I opposed was that the terrible render in the OP was because Poser is crap, and that only experts can get results that are not crap, and only through specialized knowledge and skill.

I set up that render by click to load, click to pose, click to render. I took no time to adjust lights, or shaders. It is not a great render. But it is not a terrible render, either. One has only to learn the most basic principles of lighting to achieve results that are clearly better than the OP image.

If I had spent an hour or more preparing the image to look merely good, then I would be supporting the claim that good results are only achieved with better, more expensive tools.

I agree that you can spend 10 hours in Poser and never achieve state-of-the-art photorealism with the current version of Poser.

Back to the car analogy. Suppose I get in my wife's car and race around a track for an hour and I finish 100 laps. In my car I finish 200 laps.

My wife driver her car on the track and finishes 40 laps. She gets in my car and still does 40 laps.

You cannot conclude that her car is crap just because her results are poor.

If we both race the same cars, I will win every time. That has little to do with whether or not the car is crap.

Same with renderers. If I use Poser and make a good render, and somebody else uses Poser and make a bad render, that does not mean that Poser is crap.

And I agree, I cannot make an excellent render in Poser, even if my skills are up to it. But there are so many Poser users who simply do not have the skills to manage a high-end renderer and get state of the art results. Advising them to get a better renderer, even if they can afford it, is not helpful. They need to learn the CG skills first, and Poser is a fine and inexpensive vehicle for learning those skills.

It is the same with photography. I have a pretty decent camera, but a real Pro would produce better results, regardless of whether he uses my $1200 camera+lens or his $10000 camera+lens. When I ask for help and guidance in a photography forum, no Pro tells me my camera is crap and I should buy the $10,000 camera and lenses he uses. Instead, he tells me the opposite. He says "You're skills are not good enough to use a Nikon D3X and Pro glass. Learn to use the features of the camera you have first." If I get poor results with the D90, I will get poor results with the D3X.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)