Duh! Your right! My brain is not working too well today. Thanks I'll try both methods and see which works better for me. I appreciate your help. Could anyone out there help me with applying Anyhting Grooves to this, I bought it and have no idea how to use it in practical situations such as this, I really wnat to use it, but I'm getting nowhere with it. Thanks to Eric Winemiller for the Tire Tread picture. kaom