I couldn't agree more. The difference between Bryce 4 and 5 is minimal at best. The Tree lab isn't enough to get to me to buy it. The metaballs don't really matter either since I have Carrara and Rhino and can make anything I need in those. The rendering speed is not much better than in 4, sure there is network rendering but that's only because it's so damn slow to begin with. I was really looking forward to Bryce 5, and now I'm looking back to Bryce 4. Bryce 4 will do what I need. Corel thinks they can fool us with a version of Bryce that is nothing more than a patch to Bryce 4, and they want to charge $319 for the full version, and $159 for the upgrade. That's what keeping me from getting it. Hell the new version of Vue 4 is only going to cost $199. Corel should rethink their pricing structure for Bryce, That's a pretty big price increase for very little improvement. There isn't enough there to justify the increase. We aren't stupid Corel, and you're not fooling most of us. For that kind of money there are a lot of other options that could expand Bryce 4's capabilities. I for one am extremely disappointed with Corel, but then again I never really like their products anyway,And I still don't. kaom