As soon as I have the money I am upgrading, to many complaints, if you aren't getting it, why did you decide it was something you had to share...oh well, my renders never take more then a day or so and I do animations about 30 seconds long, and in my opinion thats pretty damn fast for a 3D animation, about 12 hours for modeling and animating and 2 more days for rendering, thats very fast in the production sense, plus its all high quality, everyone complains about the render speed, its because its a "true raytracer" it doesn't take shortcuts you could say, like other raytracers. You complain yet when Corel comes up with a nice simple yet wonderful solution you smash it down. Oh well. I would prefer to have a hybrid renderer rather then a true radiosity renderer, you think the speed is bad now, ha, wait till we get radiosity, so hybrid, thats what I want. As for metaballs and the treelab, vegetation...finally..and the metaballs my god so much more then modeling...create a bunch of paths, shape them like they look like water coming from a fountain, put a bunch of metaballs on the path...slap a nice water texture on them all, animate....ooooh a fountain...or create a bunch of slightly bumped paths..and have them shape with a stream bed you create in the terrain editor...or the same terrain and the same paths, a little tweaking of some colors, and add a lava texture instead.....ahhhh....droool.... cheers! someone try that for me so I can see how it comes out.... Nick