JVogel How are you finding it insulting??? I'm speaking very clearly, not putting anyone down. I said that a lot of amatuers do incredible work in here. I'm not being arrogant at all. How long have you been involved in 3D? If I wanted to insult people I could do a great job of it, but that's not my intent at all. The only >>reason I added that I was a Professional was because of >what you said about getting me Vista Pro, I've used it and >>it's kind of a joke.I don't think that I'm better than >>anyone in here, I see some amazing stuff in here done by >>complete amateurs >>How is that arrogant? I'm giving credit to people who are amatuers, they do some great things with Bryce, Hell I learn a lot of cool techniques from amatuers, you're right- professional or amatuers is no measure of talent. It can indicate how long you've been at it though, and believe there are a lot of professionals who have techniques you'd never dream of. It's not an insult. And we all do learn everyday in this 3D business, I learn from everyone, and I try to share my knowledge also. Yes the forums are for help,they are also for debate, discussion, and whatever else crosses your mind pertaining to a particular piece of software. If you needed help and posted a question, I would definately do my best to help you if I had the answer, or should I say one of the answers, because there can be many different answers to a particular problem. By the way I'm not judging Bryce 5 on it's rendering speed alone! It does go much deeper as I tried to explain. I didn't point any fingers at you, or anyone. I'm not saying you've been suckered into buying it, I pointed out that I will buying it myself. Have you owned any previous versions of Bryce? Do you use any other 3D software? I'm not asking you to be insulting, I 'm just curious as to if you have any other software to judge it by. If you think this was negative, then you should of been reading the Carrara forums over the last year and a half. You read my words in my last post all wrong if you think I was being insulting to anyone but corel. A lot of us in here are software junkies and we can tend to take it pretty seriouly. You need to read my last post again because I'm not insulting you in any way. Get used to in here, this is nothing, it can get a lot worse. But enjoy Bryce 5(or does that insult you?) You will enjoy it, Bryce is a fun amazing piece of software. Why do think I included "no hard feelings?" at the end of my post? Because I mean it. There's no need to make enemies in here, I respect griggs opinions and decisions, and he realised that. Can't we all just get along?? kaom