Hmm, I'll have to check that pose, and probably the rigging. I'm pretty sure the collars go up, but they don't seem to take the collar bones with them, which is not good.

While you guys play with the preview and I play with P8's IDL, maybe we could have a mini-poll. Very simple question:

What should I work on next?
(a) The shoulder bends.
(b) JCMs for those bends that don't have any yet (ankles, wrists, neck).
(c) The facial expressions.
(d) None of the above (please specify).

 Bald guys ALL look like Lex Luthor, IMO. :laugh:  THIS is getting VERY interesting!  Great work.  I might have named him Anthony, but that's me.  Very cool work.

Work on the shoulders!  The last great bendy frontier!

'Magnet balls' for a male character". OMG  MUST RESIST COMMENTING! :laugh:

Gah. I just spent a half hour morphing. Was getting it pretty good.

Then when I went to export, I realized I was working on my original version from the April release of Antonia. Duh.

Back to the drawing board. :-p

when working on the collar bones, make sure they move but don't bend. i know i've read that as some users' pet Poser peeve before.

Quote - when working on the collar bones, make sure they move but don't bend. i know i've read that as some users' pet Poser peeve before.

Yep, I'll definitely try not to give her rubber bones. That's on of my peeves as well. I've made it a habit of mine to check all my morphs in an animation loop. It's the best way to see if anything moves in strange ways.

Quote - Gah. I just spent a half hour morphing. Was getting it pretty good.

Then when I went to export, I realized I was working on my original version from the April release of Antonia. Duh.

Back to the drawing board. :-p

I feel your pain. Although, on the plus side, you've tricked yourself into getting extra practice. :D

True, but I'm having a hard time getting the chest as good this time around. :-

She morphs nice too. This is just a quickie render. I got much more I want to do.

Now, I must get to bed! ;o)

Laurie

Lovely, Laurie! Still need to work on the sharp edges in the curve of Antonia's default lips, but it's looking very nice.

He's looking better and better. I really like the new shape of the forehead, and the chest looks good as well. Make the areolae a bit smaller and flatter, and you have a winner.

Two small things: 

1) Even men who are not athletes, actors or fitness models can have a little bit of a waist. I know I do. If that's the shape you wanted, that's fine, though. Just saying. :laugh:

2) The insides of the shins seems too bulky right under the knee. You need a little bit of an indentation there. Otherwise, he's got a really great average guy shape.

 Really impressive morphing!  I think we have a dude!

One other thing: Narrow the top lip.  Males of the species don't usually have as everted lips as the female.  The darker than normal lips exagerate the effect on the figure.  If the lips were paler, it wouldn't be as noticeable, but it got me thinking about it.

A real "WOW" definitely!  You did good, believeable one!

So now, either one has to sit down to model a "toast" or we have to borrow him one from G2 I would prefer, the y look very realistic. :blushing:

Thanks a lot for this figure,  the bends are much better than with any commercial figure,
especially the thumb, which always looked weird with the other figures when grabbing something!

Best regards,
   Michael

I would suggest the shoulder bends.

 Bigius Dickus?  He has a wife you know.....

Intercontiientia Buttocks!

:laugh:  I loved that movie!  Monty Python just rocks.

No seriously, Joel, that's what they called that schlong prop. Must have been Monty Python fans, too.

Ulli: There are levels now? 

Olaf, at least now there are levels: before Antonia and Antonia :rolleyes:

odf: I obviously made the knees thicker. There's a bit of an indentation, but probably not quite enough.

About the waist... technically, I think if the arms are up like that, a waist indentation isn't gonna show up. I guess it should be modelled according to a shape that would work either way (though I think this is still believable).

I thought I had shrunk the areolae, but when I got him into Poser and rendered... I guess not. Of course, what it looks like is gonna depend on the texture too.

I think I'm close to the limits of what I can do, though. When I put his hands down at his side, he breaks pretty badly. We may need to resort to x-scaling to get that chest width, as you suggested. I'd rather solve it in the model itself, but unfortunately I know little of modelling and absolutely nothing of rigging (which means I don't really understand what you have to face with what I'm doing with the sculpt).

Joel: I think this guy's top lip is about the same thickness as my own. His bottom is probably thicker than mine, tho.

Michael: good expression.

I agree about the thumbs. They're awesome.

Do you think this is fixable (without becoming a major time investment for you, odf), or will we have to scrap this guy?

 I'm glad you posted those renders odf. I was just about to suggest that reference photos need to be used.

Also, could we see the rear of Antonio alongside his front?

Also, his shoulders need to be wider and more angular.

 Raise his collars groups by the Up/Down rotation?

Thanks - here's a little more of lady-like pose :)  But keep the porn poses coming LOL.

Morphs for the fingernails would be nice as well as a mat pose for textures, since DAZ Studio and Carrara can't use Poser materials.  I tried loading Antonia into Carrara, but I couldn't get the injection morphs to load.

She's certainly more impressive than Alyson or any of the G2 females.  I think you're doing a great thing in letting people beta her while she's still in development.

Quote - I reckon there are male members to be found in wide free ranges of Poserdom. This is a character I dialed for V2 many years ago. I couldn't model then, so I had to attach a prosthetic, which I believe went under the name Bigius Dickus.

There is also ULF's "C" Version 2 set free at GayPoserArt (I believe?). It looks like a good product though I am still using version 1.x. And if it is as good or better than that it should be very good.

I have tried turning V2 into a guy and I feel the same holds true for these images of Antonia...just falls short of "guy" in my opinion. The face and neck look more butch fem than man and especially the pectorals/Chest area, shoulders too narrow compared to hips and biceps too undefined. I no longer look cut and gravity and time have claimed more than I would like to admit but remove my sloppy gut and the items mentioned above pretty much fall closer into that "guy" cut category. No offense to anyone here please but as these guy morphs stand so far I am loathe to find them useful.

Quote - > Quote - I reckon there are male members to be found in wide free ranges of Poserdom. This is a character I dialed for V2 many years ago. I couldn't model then, so I had to attach a prosthetic, which I believe went under the name Bigius Dickus.

There is also ULF's "C" Version 2 set free at GayPoserArt (I believe?). It looks like a good product though I am still using version 1.x. And if it is as good or better than that it should be very good.

I have tried turning V2 into a guy and I feel the same holds true for these images of Antonia...just falls short of "guy" in my opinion. The face and neck look more butch fem than man and especially the pectorals/Chest area, shoulders too narrow compared to hips and biceps too undefined. I no longer look cut and gravity and time have claimed more than I would like to admit but remove my sloppy gut and the items mentioned above pretty much fall closer into that "guy" cut category. No offense to anyone here please but as these guy morphs stand so far I am loathe to find them useful.

I actually think it's probably easier to go from guy to gal than the other way ;o).

Laurie

I simply disagree that the face and neck look "butch fem" rather than masculine. But keep in mind that he doesn't have his own texture, so he's borrowing textures made specifically for a female. If we come up with something good, I wouldn't imagine that would always be the case.

The shoulders are a completely different issue, though. I'm learning, but I don't really know how to address that. I'm gonna probably try something different just to see if it works, but it would involve redoing all my work.

I'm not really trying to overdefine the figure (although he's got more definition on his biceps than you probably realize). I wanted to provide a good relatively neutral body that would provide a good starting point for further work (whether characters or perfecting Antonio himself).

You don't have to use him if you don't want to. If someone finds him useful, then my work is worth it... but first the shoulder issue would obviously have to be fixed, as he's not all that usable as is.

The morph was made for the Anatolia96 (Antonia.obj). I wish I had waited for Anatolia114, because I much prefer her breast shape. In the above image the yellow outline is the original, and the white outline is the morph. I'll post a profile view soon.

Anitolia? her name is Antonia....

Anyway, odf's goal was not to get the most attractive figure possible, but to approach reality as well as he could. I think he's done a very good job with that, though there is some work left.

And of course, you can morph her into a more beautiful creature to your heart's content.

@ Believable3D,

Sorry for getting the name wrong, spelling never was my strong point. Of course odf can do what ever he wants with the figure. Like I said, this is just my two cents worth. However this seems to be a thread about the development of Antonia, so it does not seem to me too fare off topic to express an opinion about that.

And I agree with you, I think odf has done a very good job.

Believable3d: 
I am sorry but I was really not trying to attack your work specifically. Of course anything added to this figure makes it that much better and versatile and I would NEVER put any contribution offered here to expand her versatility down (I might be opinionated but not too stupid!)   :)
My comment was a broad sweep (at least that was the way I wanted it to be) and I guess I failed at that attempt when I referred to samples from your offerings but there were several other images and comments regarding multi-use/multi gender meshes in this thread I was also referring to.

No, I don't have to use it but even though I did say I don't like using the V2Male morphs despite the custome textures I had converted from M3 characters in my archives I still think the standard M2 is better for far more things (more angular and less round and "soft"!?) . Side by side i guess one can see the difference I am referring to better.

You are right too, the textured figures do make a difference in the way a finished figure is percieved. But so far the morph seems softer and less angular than one would expect from a stand-alone male mesh.  Just an observation and my own opinion.  :)

Quote -
Here is the side view of my morph.

Actually I like the morphs. They should also be made available as part of the thread member contributions here. I would use them. As I wrote above any additional morphs or character additions to Antonia will only add to her versatility and make the user experience of the figure that much richer...especially for lumps like me who can sit and spin morph dials all night looking for that "PERFECT" character for a render!  LOL

Quote - I was able to smooth some of the ugliness out with the Poser morphing tool (cross-group feature in P8 is very helpful), but the shoulders are ridiculous low. I'm not really sure what to do.

Believable3D: I think the problem is that you moved the shoulder outward while keeping the rotation center were it was. In effect that center is now somewhere in the middle of the collar bone, and since everything outward of it will rotate down when you bend the arm, you see the lumping shoulder effect.

I'm by no means an expert in full-body-morphs, but I see three potential ways to fix that:

1. Change the shape back so that the shoulders are roughly were they were before, so that - hopefully - the bend will work correctly again. Then get the wider chest back by using the x-scale on it.

2. Use the chest x-scale on the unmorphed figure to match Antonio's shoulder width. Then apply the morphed obj file to that version. You can't do that in Poser yet, as far as I know, but it should be possible in DAZ Studio with the MorphLoaderPro plugin. If you want, I can try that for you.

3. Move the rotation centers to a position that works with your morph (you might also have to edit the falloff parameters). Of course that's not the original figure anymore, and you might be incompatible with potential future changes. But Antonia and Antonio would still share a common mesh and could exchange textures and some morphs.

PapaBlueMarlin:

Quote - Thanks - here's a little more of lady-like pose :)  But keep the porn poses coming LOL.

See, that's what I'm talking about. And don't worry, I love my porn poses way to much to abandon them. :lol:

Quote - Morphs for the fingernails would be nice as well as a mat pose for textures, since DAZ Studio and Carrara can't use Poser materials.  I tried loading Antonia into Carrara, but I couldn't get the injection morphs to load.

Agreed on both counts. BluEcho actually provided material poses for her original texture. But since I made some changes for the version that ships with Antonia and didn't keep the original file names, I'll have to edit those to get them working again.

Fingernail morphs should be easy as pie. I'll see what I can do on short notice.

To use the morphs in other software, you'll have to inject them from within Poser first and then save the modified figure. If anyone volunteered to put up a pre-injected CR2 somewhere for the benefit of the D|S-only users, I wouldn't hate them. :laugh: The thing is, I'm only supporting Poser 6 and up in the preview stage to keep the workload down.

Quote - I have tried turning V2 into a guy and I feel the same holds true for these images of Antonia...just falls short of "guy" in my opinion. The face and neck look more butch fem than man and especially the pectorals/Chest area, shoulders too narrow compared to hips and biceps too undefined.

I'm not sure I agree. I think Antonio makes for a quite believable older man, overall. There's certainly room for improvement, but I'm actually surprised how good he looks for a "quickie".

In fact I had the reverse problem when I originally made Antonia. It took me ages to get her to look female enough without turning her into a glorified cartoon character.

lesbently: Your revised shape looks great. I think the hips might be a tiny bit too rounded in the front view, but otherwise excellent work. I'd definitely like a full-body morph for Antonia based on that.

I don't think I will change Antonia's base shape - meaning the original shape of the mesh - much anymore. It's a lot of effort to do that with the rig already in place and a number of morphs in existence that are based on that shape. Also, it's just that: the shape to use as a base for more accentuated morphs. So I think it's a good thing that it's relatively neutral or average, because that way it should be easier to mix and match shape morphs developed for it.

By the way, have you tried to use the scaling dials to change her shape? I think they can do a great job at varying her appearance in lots of ways. People say scaling is bad, but I never quite understood why. My suspicion is that scaling is just not supported well in many existing figures, or existing clothes. It does seem to work well enough in Apollo, from what I've seen. But maybe I'm missing something fundamental here.

I've got a bunch of head morphs already. I'm trying to make her smile so that her cheeks and eyes do the whole thing all at once...I'm still working on that one...lol.

Renders soon.

Laurie

Quote - I've got a bunch of head morphs already. I'm trying to make her smile so that her cheeks and eyes do the whole thing all at once...I'm still working on that one...lol.

Renders soon.

Laurie

Cool! Can't wait to see your morphs.

For the smile you might still want to split it into one for the mouth and one for the eyes, since those are in principle independent movements which influence the cheeks in their own particular ways. Basically, if you did a "wide" for the mouth and a "squint" for the eyes, the right combination should make for a pretty decent smile.

I should warn you: I have a book on that stuff, and I was planning to implement the system proposed in there for Antonia. So I've got a lot of theoretical nonsense in my head without any practical experience whatsoever. :laugh: Unfortunately, I keep getting held up by rigging stuff, particularly the JCMs, so I'm really thankful that others help out with the expression morphs. Just be aware that I have something planned in that direction, as well. So if you end up spending a lot of time on that kind of thing, we should probably try to coordinate our efforts.

I did spend much of the day trying a different approach - i.e. working in Poser using a combination of scaling and the Poser morphing tools (which I had never really used all that much before; they're quite limited), and adding on a head sculpted in Argile. I did manage to get the upper body considerably better, although not anywhere close to perfect. The arms straight down position is not very good, and the twisting involved in the zero position isn't overly pretty either. Throw a sitting pose (or anything that involves more than about a 60 degree leg bend) at it, and the bum/upper leg area explode a fair bit. I don't know if that has anything to do with rotation centers as well.

Still, I am going to save this Poser scaling/morphing-based Antonio to my character library in Poser; he should be usable for most everyday sort of renders that don't involve sitting (maybe even work there too - clothing can hide a lot). I'm showing him here, but I don't know how to improve him, so it's probably no point uploading him to the developer site. I don't want to create a lot of extra work for you, odf, unless someone else who is rigging-handy is interested in picking up the ball and taking either my Argile morph or this version and trying to make something of it.

Credit: Toni texture by SF (?).

Quote - > Quote - I've got a bunch of head morphs already. I'm trying to make her smile so that her cheeks and eyes do the whole thing all at once...I'm still working on that one...lol.

Renders soon.

Laurie

Cool! Can't wait to see your morphs.

For the smile you might still want to split it into one for the mouth and one for the eyes, since those are in principle independent movements which influence the cheeks in their own particular ways. Basically, if you did a "wide" for the mouth and a "squint" for the eyes, the right combination should make for a pretty decent smile.

I should warn you: I have a book on that stuff, and I was planning to implement the system proposed in there for Antonia. So I've got a lot of theoretical nonsense in my head without any practical experience whatsoever. :laugh: Unfortunately, I keep getting held up by rigging stuff, particularly the JCMs, so I'm really thankful that others help out with the expression morphs. Just be aware that I have something planned in that direction, as well. So if you end up spending a lot of time on that kind of thing, we should probably try to coordinate our efforts.

I'll keep that in mind :o)

Laurie

Les, please don't misunderstand. It wasn't my intent to diss your effort. Your morph looks lovely. I just got the impression you wanted that look as default, and I didn't think that was what odf had in mind even when Antonia was a lot less "settled" than now. Most of the back-and-forth critique in this thread was what did or did not look real, everyday, not what looked prettier.

But no doubt, Antonia will be like every other female 3D model - people will want to render her as a sex goddess, and so will want a morph more like yours. :biggrin:

Wow, odf.  I checked out your update, and it looks great.  I see some good creations coming up for her.  So glad I got a way to sculpt/texture her.

Thanks for sharing this sweet ol' gal...

JB