Quote - So what's wrong with the term oriental?

I honestly don't think this is the place to discuss this. I was just sharing some information I happened to come across, k?

Laurie, I didn't mean to say you did a bad thing, much less an unforgivable thing.

Maybe I'll even link it to a control channel in the body. I really like the scaling controls that Apollo has.

I hope that 'zip with a .txt extension thing works'.

I'm doing the same with the head for the next preview, so that one can point the head at the camera properly.

PS: Laurie, don't hate me. Pwease? :mellow:

@odf,> Quote - lesbentley: Here's a render with the eyes pointing at the camera. It seems to work fine, at least in Poser 8. The key is the correct positioning of the endpoint. It is usually placed along the main axis, which means that axis will be pointed at the camera and Antonia will go all cross-eyed. If one gives it the same x and y coordinates as the center but a higher z coordinate, everything will work fine.

Yes I agree the the eyes look fine in you image. I guess I should have actually checked the effect of "Point At" before opening my mouth. Sorry for the distraction.

I like the idea of the endPoint being in front of the head so it can point at things, instead to being on top it is in most figures.

@Believable3D,

Quote - What you seem to imply here is that rigging changes would not be treated as a morph - i.e. couldn't be saved as a normal pmd / INJ pose file and function. Is that correct?

Rigging changes would not be treated as a morph, but a pose file can include rigging changes.

The origins of Antonia's left and right collars are set to "origin 0.006 0.573 -0.042" and "origin -0.006 0.573 -0.042" respectively. Say you wanted to change the x origins to "0.026" and "-0.026" respectively. Purely from the point of changing the origin ("Center Point"), the following pose file should do the job.

{

version
        {
        number 3
        }
actor lCollar
        {
        channels
                {
                xOffsetA xOffset
                        {
                        initValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">0.026</span>
                        staticValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">0.026</span>
                        }
                xOffsetB xTranB
                        {
                        initValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">-0.026</span>
                        staticValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">-0.026</span>
                        }
                }
        endPoint <span style="color:rgb(0,204,255);">0.08</span> 0.565 -0.033
        origin <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">0.026</span> 0.573 -0.042
        }
actor rCollar
        {
        channels
                {
                xOffsetA xOffset
                        {
                        initValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">-0.026</span>
                        staticValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">-0.026</span>
                        }
                xOffsetB xTranB
                        {
                        initValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">0.026</span>
                        staticValue <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">0.026</span>
                        }
                }
        endPoint <span style="color:rgb(0,204,255);">-0.08</span> 0.565 -0.033
        origin <span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);">-0.026</span> 0.573 -0.042
        }
}

Note that this file also moves the endPoint by the same ammount (optional). Moving the origin may affect the way other JPs work, for example in the lCollar the "jointZ jointz", "jointY jointy", and "twistX twistx" contain the line "center 0.006 0.573 -0.042". I don't know enough about joints to give you good advice here, but it may be worth resetting the origins via a pose, and see if it helps.

 Some countries have different tolernces and terms. As DAZ used the term to death in the Vickies, I don't see a problem using terms used by the big boys. :laugh:  It's sort of like the difference between Latinas and Latinos and Hispanic in America.  It's all the same to people who AREN'T that group, but BIG difference to those who have the term applied to them.

We humans love our names and racial identities and cling to them like life preservers.  I'm a complete mutt of races and cultures, so I find it a little funny.  I have a black grand-father and a Chinese great grand mother, and am around 9/16ths American Indian of different tribes.

So what am I?

Human, last time I checked.  I've seen a UFO once, so I might be mistaken.:laugh:

ANYWAY--Laurie, I like the eye morph in general.  It might be more clamped toward the lacrimal, and more open toward the outside.  That might be more of an artistic quibble than actual nature.  The face shape, and nose has as much to do with ethno-type as the eye-shape.

I think combined with some of the negroid morphs already done for her face, I think you hit the nail on the head.  Good job.

Quote - Yes I agree the the eyes look fine in you image. I guess I should have actually checked the effect of "Point At" before opening my mouth. Sorry for the distraction.

No distraction! Your comment made me look at that 'point at' thing again and thus realize that due to the shorter neck, the chin deformed when the head was turned. So I had the opportunity to fix that now.

OT post here, just wanted to say thanks again to odf for the invite. I got the email and have created an account. I'm not sure yet what to do there, or how to navigate the site but I'll figure it out soon enough.

Laurie, your eyes look really good. Well, not yours but Antonia's. Well I'm sure yours are fine too. ;-)
I'm surprised at how much you can do with Poser's morph brush. To me it's like trying to use a monkey wrench to attach a postage stamp to a letter. ;-)
But if you like that, you're going to love 3D Coat, especially if you have a 64 bit computer and especially if you have a powerful Nvidia graphics card. Since it uses CUDA, which is Nvidia's solution for leveraging the GPU for calculations, which is far more powerful than a CPU for many things.
I think it's the only 3D app using CUDA so far, at least the only commercial app. I'm sure studios have implemented their own versions in their proprietary software. It is the way of the future in 3D apps, and Andrew Shpagin is brilliant for getting in on it early. Actually, he's brilliant, period.
Run it in OpenGL mode for maximum performance.

If however you have a weak graphics card, or an ATI card, you should probably use the DirectX version, which is still plenty powerful.

Anyhow, sorry for the OT, just wanted to say these things.
This has become a very informative thread and project, and I feel honored to be a part of it. :-)

Quote - It's all the same to people who AREN'T that group, but BIG difference to those who have the term applied to them.

Yes, that was my whole point. Some Asian people have a problem with the term because - I assume - it reminds them of not so flattering caricatures with buck teeth and flat conic hats and other similar stereotypes. So I see it as a courtesy to them not to use the term myself and also tell people about it who might not yet have realized that it could be problematic.

I should have phrased it better. I certainly don't mean to swing the hammer of political correctness and tell people which terms they may or may not use.

Where I come from oriental usually means Middle-Eastern, not East-Asian. But it's not used much, anymore.

Needing a break from my tedious eye morphing I figured I'd go ahead and UV map it. I'm new here though and I don't know who's doing what, and I don't want to step on any toes, so I figured I'd ask first before uploading. I don't know who the person is who made it, so I don't know who to ask, but I figured since it was in the "files to work on" section, it was OK to do so.

I'm attaching a screenie of the outfit with the UV window next to it. I assigned different materials and some "UV checker" maps to it to show how even the UVs are, plus I made the surface display double-sided for a better look. That doesn't affect the model, only how Lightwave displays it.

Oh I see now maybe it was meant that Pamela Gradowitz is still working on it, since it's labeled as a WIP.
In any event, I'm available for UV mapping. ;-)

You could just upload it and see what happens or email her and ask if she minds.

How do you email someone? There's only her name there and no email, and it's not click-able.

MikeJ: answered by site-mail.

Quote - I was checking out the site under the "files to work on" section and I saw that "fae2.obj" outfit for Antonia. I noticed it said it had no UVs or grouping yet and that kind of jumped out at me, since I like making UVs.

Needing a break from my tedious eye morphing I figured I'd go ahead and UV map it. I'm new here though and I don't know who's doing what, and I don't want to step on any toes, so I figured I'd ask first before uploading. I don't know who the person is who made it, so I don't know who to ask, but I figured since it was in the "files to work on" section, it was OK to do so.

I'm attaching a screenie of the outfit with the UV window next to it. I assigned different materials and some "UV checker" maps to it to show how even the UVs are, plus I made the surface display double-sided for a better look. That doesn't affect the model, only how Lightwave displays it.

Wow the mapping looks excellent Mike! Makes me wanna texture it now (like I don't already have enough to do)...lolol.

As for the response to the "oriental" thing? Sorry bout that odf - I was tired and in a mood and I guess I just took it way too personal. I apologize.

You may now all return to your regularly scheduled Antonia....

Laurie

Thanks Laurie.
Well you can if you want, I uploaded it, since Olaf informed me that's exactly why those files are there in that section - "to be worked on"

Of course it's still just a static obj file, not Poserized.

Quote - Thanks Laurie.
Well you can if you want, I uploaded it, since Olaf informed me that's exactly why those files are there in that section - "to be worked on"

Of course it's still just a static obj file, not Poserized.

That doesn't matter much ;o). I can still texture it so long as the mapping stays thru the Poserization process...lol. I LOVE mapping that doesn't stretch ;o).

Laurie

It took me a good time to learn how to UV map without stretching, but I'm kinda picky about that too.
Let me know if you need a UV template for it. I didn't think to add one to the zip file.

Edit:
I just uploaded an updated zip file with a 2K UV template in it

Quote - It took me a good time to learn how to UV map without stretching, but I'm kinda picky about that too.
Let me know if you need a UV template for it. I didn't think to add one to the zip file.

Not a problem. So long as the uv mapped object is there, I can get one out of UVMPro :o).

Laurie

Well I just edited my above post. I updated the zip file with a 2K UV template in .tif format.

Thanks for that code, Les! Am still trying to see if I can get away without rerigging... would save trouble down the road. Unfortunately, last night I did some work and Poser said something about not being able to store the data and crashed. I'm gonna make a pose with the basic morph info sans the scaling and then apply it to a scaled version and see what happens.

Looks good, Les!

Where does one learn how to do these PMD injections?
Aren't the PMD files the external binary morphs?

Need any special programs for that?

Les: nice work! I like me some variation.

MikeJ: Nope, you don't need a special program. Look here.

If you want, though, you can use a special program, such as the "Binary Morph Editor" by Dimension3D. It extracts morphs from various kinds of files and creates injection poses, both PMD-based and using traditional deltas.

Also note that because the Antonio version doesn't play particularly well with the Antonia poses, I created five poses just for him. The simplest ones were the T-pose and the Zero pose - all I had to do was do a "drop to floor," because y-scaling in Poser makes the character grow both directions, i.e. including through the floor. I also created a stand straight pose because the default one causes the shoulders to be too low. I also created a variation on the stand straight pose, with the arms crossed.

Finally, I created a sit straight pose. Antonio has serious problems with his buttocks starting to pull apart somewhere around a 55 bend or so. As I result, he breaks pretty badly down there with Antonia's supplied sitting poses, although if clothed it may not be seen. Anyway, I created a pose that depends on bends in the abdomen and hip so that the thighs don't have to be bent quite so much.

The Cr2 has no textures attached, but he works reasonably well with Saint Fox's excellent Toni texture until such time if/when someone is bored and creates a male texture.

Above all, please feel free to improve on this. There is plenty of room. I've already mentioned the extreme thigh bends. I'm sure someone else can improve on the chest area. And although the arms do fine in the zero and t-poses, once you get the elbows above head level, the twisting in the upper arm starts to create deformations.

As noted earlier, there are of course no gens. I did smooth the mesh in the nether regions, as it made sense to me that no gens are better than the wrong ones.

[cross post, odf beat me to it]

@MikeJ,

Q: Aren't the PMD files the external binary morphs?

A: Yes.

Q: Need any special programs for that?

A: No, but there is a binary morph editor at Dimension 3D, which I think would be a very useful tool, I'll buy it if I ever have some money.

Q: Where does one learn how to do these PMD injections?

A: The basics are at Nerd3D at this link "Poser 6 PMD Injection".

I'm doing a slight variation on Nerd's method. I store the PMD file outside of the Pose folder, in a dedicated "!PMD" folder. There is a pose file under the Pose folder that calls the PMD file with a line like this:

    injectPMDFileMorphs :Runtime:libraries:!PMD:Antonia:Les:NewFace-d-LB.pmd

The idea behind doing it this way is that I (or an end user) can move the pose file to a different folder, without having to worry about moving the PMD file.

However I seem to have stumbled on a glitch in PMD injection, at least in P6. When you use PMD injection to load a new channel, the channel is added at the bottom of the channel stack, this seems to cause a problem when the morph falls on a bend zone. See "PMD/JCM problem" for more details. For an example of PMD injection see the "NewFace-d-LB.zip" at the Antonia Developers site.

One point to note is that when you make the PMD file in Poser, all morph channels that contain deltas will be included in the PMD, so you really need to start with a BLANK cr2, or export your morph(s) as OBJ, then import it into a BLANK cr2, before making the PMD.

Thanks for uploading him, Believable3D! I think it's great to make things we work on available to other developers, even if they're not (yet) perfect. I always learn a lot from what other people have done, and maybe someone can find a way to fix the remaining problems.

As for the sitting poses: the one with the 120 degree bend in the thigh is obviously very unrealistic and is just there to test the JCM at large angles. The other ones should be possible, I think, for sufficiently limber people, but if you look at how other Poser figures bend, Antonio is in good company there. :laugh:

I actually noticed that I had Antonio's fingers into his legs in that pose. I've fixed it locally already (which is the image here), but I won't update the uploaded runtime until/unless I have something more significant to change.

I've been working on squint morphs and eye morphs in general, since I'll need them as a base for the expression morphs I want to do, not to mention eye morphs themselves.
The attached picture represents no less than 10 or so start-to-finish-to-scrap-and-start-over attempts, one for the left side, one for the right. I have 33 eye morphs for right and left squint, and only two of them are what I would call decent. The left and right squint morphs are separated, one for each side.
Still a WIP though, and it's not a true "squint" since all that's being affected is the eye geometry itself and none of the surrounding muscles, but that comes later, using these as a base.
The problem is getting the lashes to follow along and play nice and stay even. ;-)
At least I've managed to not distort the geometry too much, and avoided texture stretching and polygon flipping.
I'll have a set of squint/close morphs to upload tomorrow sometime, hopefully. I'm still not completely satisfied with the looks of these.

FWIW, here's a comparison of Antonio and Antonia at her default size. He's kinda tall and lean....

Thank you. :-)

Your Antonio is coming along well too. Needs more muscle definition though I think.

Yeah, I'm still working on him, though what I'm really hoping is that people will want to create unique muscle variations from my bland base.

But he was TOO long and lean... I'm already working on a slightly shorter, thicker scaling.

Is there anyone else here that can see this person with just a SLIGHT bit of tweaking? The shape of the eyes most especially ... I think with a little adjustment you could have a very good likeness ....

This was made without custom morphs. Just scaling, Jules' morphs for the chest, and Laurie's for the face.

Deecey, I dunno about a SLIGHT bit of tweaking. The overall head structure and the eyes/eyebrow area are fairly close, although Antonia's jaw is a bit less angular. But the nose, cheeks, mouth, chin, would all need to be worked over....

odf: other than the breasts, obviously, that's looking rather boyish. I don't think you'll be able to get a man without custom morphing, though.... but at least this way it shouldn't do so much destruction to your mesh.

Quote - odf: other than the breasts, obviously, that's looking rather boyish. I don't think you'll be able to get a man without custom morphing, though.... but at least this way it shouldn't do so much destruction to your mesh.

Well, I mostly did this as a demonstration of Antonia's scaling support, of which I am a little bit proud. The main point, really, is that it is possible to give her a more masculine frame and wider chest without messing up the bends too much. You can try out that pose file I posted yesterday to see it better.

Then I got curious as how far I could get with the morphs that already exist. For a quick-and-dirty male, I could make extra morphs for the lips, neck and chest and maybe tweak the texture a bit. But that's all just playing with Antonia's built-in variability. It's not turning her into a genuine male mesh by a long shot.

I guess my angle here is that since I know how much tedious work it is to get those bends to work correctly, I'd try to avoid doing it again if possible. :laugh: But don't let that discourage you. There'd definitely be value in having a male variant of Antonia with a customized rig.

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid altering the rigging.

Quote - Antonio is inspiring me. :laugh:

This was made without custom morphs. Just scaling, Jules' morphs for the chest, and Laurie's for the face.

Looks good...lol ;o).

I'm still inspired...I've been making faces all day! ;oP

I coaxed a REALLY, really pretty one (she's still rendering) that I like even better than the one I posted yesterday.

My new morphs include: Lips Up Round, Lips Up Pointy, Epicanthic Eye Fold, Nose Fae, Lash Up (this curls the lashes up to where they really look long and pretty), Jaw Forward, Cleft Chin, Nose Tip Square, etc., etc. Still wanna work on some more before I upload this set to the dev site.

Laurie

Quote -
I'm still inspired...I've been making faces all day! ;oP

I like the sound of that.

Quote - > Quote -

I'm still inspired...I've been making faces all day! ;oP

I like the sound of that.

Yes, and the neighbors are starting to whisper...lmao! ;oP

Laurie

Quote - I was checking out the site under the "files to work on" section and I saw that "fae2.obj" outfit for Antonia. I noticed it said it had no UVs or grouping yet and that kind of jumped out at me, since I like making UVs.

Needing a break from my tedious eye morphing I figured I'd go ahead and UV map it. I'm new here though and I don't know who's doing what, and I don't want to step on any toes, so I figured I'd ask first before uploading. I don't know who the person is who made it, so I don't know who to ask, but I figured since it was in the "files to work on" section, it was OK to do so.

I'm attaching a screenie of the outfit with the UV window next to it. I assigned different materials and some "UV checker" maps to it to show how even the UVs are, plus I made the surface display double-sided for a better look. That doesn't affect the model, only how Lightwave displays it.

Hoorray you mapped it!!! Thank you. I am terrible at mapping and grouping. I would love help taking this farther. I put it up there for anyone to do as they please since it is meant to be a freebie.

Believable3D: I tried to have a look at Antonio, but the cr2 from the developers site require an obj file that is not included in the zip.

Hm. Ah, I guess I used Argile for the headmorph. Will correct this if I can figure out the right file.

Sorry 'bout that. The zip should be right now. I've got myself confused... I've had so many versions I don't know what's what.

Yeah, I know that feeling.

Quote -

Hoorray you mapped it!!! Thank you. I am terrible at mapping and grouping. I would love help taking this farther. I put it up there for anyone to do as they please since it is meant to be a freebie.

Oh you're most welcome. I actually enjoy UV mapping and the programs and plugins I have for it make it quick, relatively painless and even fun. As for grouping an OBJ file I can do that easily enough, - for Lightwave rigging - but I'm not a Poser rigger and things have to be set up differently. Actually, you don't even need to make object groups for Lightwave unless you're planning on using weight maps, but Poser requires it. I can group polys together, but I'd have to know how the rigger was planning on rigging it, so I didn't even mess with that, since I don't think you can remove groups in Poser once they're in the OBJ file and I didn't want to make a problem for someone on down the line, or fill the mesh with useless information.

But I'm glad you weren't upset about it or anything like that, and I'm more than happy to UV anything you or anyone else creates and doesn't want to mess with.

I extracted your morphs out of the PMD and injected them into a fresh Antonia instance, then applied my own scaling pose, and everything's peachy. This is of course not your original scaling, but I'll make a pose file for you that you can edit to your hearts content and put it on the developers site.

Believable3D: I just uploaded the injection version of Antonio to the developers site. My suggestion would be you adjust the scaling in Poser, then open the pz2 in a text editor (or in a Poser file editor, if you have one) and paste in your values.

These are all my own, "from-scratch" morphs and didn't utilize the Antonia eye morphs like my earlier ones did, and so, don't have the head movement problem.

This attached image was done with my eye close morphs and Les's new face morph, for Antonia 114, high res. I needed to see how they would work on a modified face.

As I said, anyone can do with them as he/she sees fit, but I'll put them in the expression morphs section instead of the "to be worked on" section, to avoid confusion.

They're not true expression morphs as they only control the eyes, but I'll be working on that later. Right now I'm kinda burned out on morphing and was thinking about making a pair of pants for the poor girl. She looks cold. ;-)

EDIT-
OBJ format again. I'm planning on studying up on that whole PMD injection thing later today, but for now all I can do is OBJ.

Thanks, odf!

Interesting that extracting out of the cr2 seems to alleviate some problems, although those upper arms are still quite twisted when raised that high. But I've been fighting Poser the past few days, so who knows?