Lost Johnny, I agree, I don't use any mega expensive software myself. I think some people missed my point. I'm not knocking Bryce at all, I love it,there's nothing that compares for the money. It is the artist and not the brush that paints a great painting. I was just disappointed with Bryce 5, that's all. Bryce is and always will be a great program. And to the kid in your class who insists on Lightwave. Sure it's great, but most people I know can't afford it. But it's not nearly as friendly and accessible as Bryce and poser. You don't need Lightwave to produce incredible 3D work, just tell him to come look around in here in the Bryce,Poser,Carrara,Vue D'Espirit forums, I think he will have to eat his words. kaom