I have some V2 textures I'd like to convert for use with V4.  I was planning on purchasing TC2, but then I read their FAQ.  In their infinite wisdom, the makers of TC2 have declared that they have deliberately nerfed the ability to convert genitalia on Michael because rendering nude figures is "unethical."  Not wanting to put money in the pockets of such infuriatingly arrogant moral busybodies (Have they seen Michaelangelo's David?  Are they shocked and apalled?) I am looking for an alternative, but nothing has come up.  I'd rather go without rather than give money to a finger-waggling moral censor who says I'm "unethical" if I render realistic nude figures without the Victorian prudery of a fig leaf, so can anyone offer any suggestions, or am I SOL?

There's nothing else on the market that can do what TC2 does BUT DPHoadley has been working on remapping various figures to take earlier incarnations textures.

ps I have TC2 but only because I bought the older converter, I won't buy any plugins due to their policies concerning the genitals & refusal to support Apollo.

IMHO they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Quote - Have they seen Michaelangelo's David?  Are they shocked and apalled?

YES

I fell for the sales pitch when TC2 first came out but as soon as the fine print was made clear I returned it for a full refund. I feel much the same as the OP in that regards. I won't fund anyone who judges what's in my heart without actually knowing who I am.

Quote - In their infinite wisdom, the makers of TC2 have declared that they have deliberately nerfed the ability to convert genitalia on Michael because rendering nude figures is "unethical." 

Whut? :blink:

Quote - Whut? :blink:

From the TC2 FAQ:

*Q: Why are male genitilia not supported?

A: 3D Universe will not be supporting the conversion of male genitilia in any of our TC2 plugins, although they may be supported by a third party plugin.

We do not see 3D genitilia of either sex as a requirement for CG art. We have only seen it used in artwork bordering on soft porn, and will not support unethical or "porn" art in any way.

Please take this into consideration before purchasing any of the male plugins.

I emailed them about it, and their response was basically, "We don't need your money, go pound sand."

so they blur the females on conversion then? betcha they don't ;)

In a way, I wish I hadn't read this. I love their toon figures and now I will refrain from purchasing any of their products in the future. I can understand their having personal objections and even not wanting to convert genitals, but the assertion that 'We have only seen it used in artwork bordering on soft porn' shows either an appalling ignorance of 3D art or a threshold of offense so low one wonders how they can stand to even look at themselves in the mirror. 

What do they do about female textures with those evil, porn-inducing genitalia on the map? Unless they blur it out, they are still contributing to whatever moral downfall they are supposedly trying to stave off. I have a sneaky suspicion that despite their "of either sex" disclaimer, it's the male part that sends them into a sphincter clenching tizzy.

It's only the new converter that has this puritanical moralising attached to it too, the older converter can still do genitals only it's no good for the latest figures.

God made a mistake making man with a penis. They are only correcting this error.

" It shrinks?  I don't know how you guys walk around with those things."

Elaine Benes
 

Kryten: Well, but is it supposed to look like that?

Lister: Well, yeah.

Kryten: *It's hideous! That's the best design they could come up with? Are you seriously telling me there were choices, and someone said "Ah, there, that's it. That's the shape we're looking for: The last-chicken-in-the-shop look?" Shakespeare had one? Einstein? Perry Como sang "Memories are Made of This" with one of those stashed in his slacks?

Red Dwarf : DNA

I thought that DAZ Studio 3D Advanced has this capability...

"Map Transfer - This allows you to convert a texture from one figure's UV's so they can be used on another figure's UV's."

I haven't yet gotten around to trying it.

Laurie

The only info I can find was a review that said: "Map Transfer allows you to transfer UV maps from one figure to another, if the figures have similar geometry"

I don't know if V2 and V4 would be "similar" enough. I'd like to hear which figures it can convert between and how good a job it does.

Quote - I thought that DAZ Studio 3D Advanced has this capability...

"Map Transfer - This allows you to convert a texture from one figure's UV's so they can be used on another figure's UV's."

That doesn't seem to make sense logically.  V4, for example, separates the limb textures from the body textures.  How would DS know to split up a V3 texture into different image files just from looking at the UV maps?

Quote - In a way, I wish I hadn't read this. I love their toon figures and now I will refrain from purchasing any of their products in the future. I can understand their having personal objections and even not wanting to convert genitals, but the assertion that 'We have only seen it used in artwork bordering on soft porn' shows either an appalling ignorance of 3D art or a threshold of offense so low one wonders how they can stand to even look at themselves in the mirror. 

What do they do about female textures with those evil, porn-inducing genitalia on the map? Unless they blur it out, they are still contributing to whatever moral downfall they are supposedly trying to stave off. I have a sneaky suspicion that despite their "of either sex" disclaimer, it's the male part that sends them into a sphincter clenching tizzy.

Hear hear. They've seen the last of my money with that attitude.

seems the logical answer is for some one to come up with a third party plug in
we should respect their view just as you would want ppl to respect yours
we should not want to make anyone do something they do not feel is right no matter what their reasons are.

Quote -

That doesn't seem to make sense logically.  V4, for example, separates the limb textures from the body textures.  How would DS know to split up a V3 texture into different image files just from looking at the UV maps?

It would know which map corresponds to each material zone from each figure's cr2...

The more I think about it, the more insane it becomes. If they are determined not to promote borderline 'soft porn,' how on earth can they facilitate the proliferation of all those pendulous, turgid nippled breasts - or those taut butts?  Are all those naked Vickies devoid of any erotic punch as long as their lips are sealed?*

"How would DS know to split up a V3 texture into different image files just from looking at the UV maps?"* 

Not sure what you mean here but you would have to specify the source & target figures yourself. Once you know that, you can use an appropriate recipe for moving pixels from one layout to the other.

"we should not want to make anyone do something they do not feel is right no matter what their reasons are."

No one is asking them to that I see. Respecting their right to do as they choose doesn't mean giving up the right to question the logic of their public justification for their choice - or the right to take exception to a view that lumps an entire panoply of art work into a single derided bucket. I admire their determination to stick to their position, however wrongheaded I may think it is. They seem like decent folks so I'm sure they will admire and respect the decision of anyone who chooses not to do business with them.

Whoa so this is why no gen crease or nipples on Skye I guess

Quote - seems the logical answer is for some one to come up with a third party plug in
we should respect their view just as you would want ppl to respect yours
we should not want to make anyone do something they do not feel is right no matter what their reasons are.

I've been meaning to say something about this situation with texture converter for several months. It burned me up to read that they would not support conversion of the genital textures, basicually immasculating the imported M3s to M4. But they are the vendor and that was their stance on it even though I might think its a bad idea. Who are they to tell me I cannot do nudes? I was raised believing that the human body was beautiful, both male and female. But as I said, they are they vendor of the product. I can hope that someone with enough savvy can create a 3rd party plugin that will do the conversion. And for anyone who remembers the ridiculous discussion in the DAZ forums regarding M4's anatomy: Viva la Toast!

well they've become useless to anyone wanting to use them for serious work. glad I never bought any of their stuff.

Quote - The more I think about it, the more insane it becomes. If they are determined not to promote borderline 'soft porn,' how on earth can they facilitate the proliferation of all those pendulous, turgid nippled breasts - or those taut butts?  Are all those naked Vickies devoid of any erotic punch as long as their lips are sealed?

I suspect it's the same reason fundie christers are obsessed with the parts of Numbers and Deuteronomy which say man lying with man is an abomination, but quietly ignore the bits which say wearing mixed fabrics is also an abomination and that a woman who doesn't bleed on her wedding night should be dragged outside and stoned to death by the groom's family: "morality" has always been the most convenient excuse for justifying one's personal prejudice.

Quote - [... "morality" has always been the most convenient excuse for justifying one's personal prejudice.

So what's the underlying morality behind the term "fundie christers"?

instead of complaining and saying they are "wrongheaded"because they see things different then you, then just make your own textures. not everyone see and think the same and just cause they think and feel different then you then i don't see how that make them wrongheaded. what make your point of view "rightheaded" why do they have to justify their work to anyone..they make it if you want it buy it if you don't pass on it. but just cause it's your view don't make it right. and please let's not make this a religious issue. they didn't tell anyone what to make and as far as serious art what is serious art??if you do serious art then create your own serious art texture and stop depending on someone else to create your art for you..

Anton once said he had figured out a way to convert textures from figure to figure using only Poser somehow but I never caught how? Did he ever reveal the technique publicly?

Last I saw TC2 had no V2 plug-in but I have not checked lately.

BUT THE REAL ISSUE HERE is that this is a matter strictly between 3D Universe and DAZ but certainly not any purchasers or potential purchasers of the product... you should show some respect to DAZ and refrain from discussing the matter here when you have no knowledge on it. You could be exposing RMP to serious legal liabilities if you continue to discuss this private matter here much less continue to speculate wildly about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the people who have purchased the product or are considering purchasing the product or purchasing any other products from that developer or store. If you have any opinions about this matter it would be far more appropriate to take them up with DAZ customer service or on the DAZ community forums.

All in my opinion of course but I do imagine this thread will be locked down any momment!

Stallion, I said "...wrongheaded I may think it is" That's my opinion, not a statement of metaphysical truth. If you think that people shouldn't discuss or even complain about things they disagree with then you must have suffered a lot of heartburn here in the past decade :-) I do not do serious art, hell, I don't even do "art," and for the once in a blue moon that I do a male render, I could cobble together a passable penis. Why then criticize them?

Let's modify your statement: instead of saying that pretty much anyone who renders a nude image with genitals is a pornographer, why not just state that you prefer not to handle anatomically correct textures for personal reasons and leave it at that? Why suggest that anyone who has a different view is "unethical?" Apparently, you don't see the negative in their way of stating things, only in other's response. If they're going to make gratuitous jabs at people, they should expect to get jabbed back. It's as simple as 'No thanks, I don't drink' vs. 'The only people I've seen drink are filthy worthless louts.' See? Probably not.

I agree 100% that religion should be left out of this. There is no reason to go there and when you do, it always ends badly.

Quote - the makers of TC2 have declared that they have deliberately nerfed the ability to convert genitalia on Michael because rendering nude figures is "unethical."

In other words, who renders any nude figure is an unethical person.

Quote - and will not support unethical or "porn" art in any way.

and unethical == porn

Who are judging and impossing their opinions and their moral values over us are they.
I cannot understand why Taleban comes up to my mind, very strange..., have I go to a shrink?....

Ethics usually flies out the Window when money shows it's ugly face on the scene. The wallet is mightier than the sword these days.

Hi, sort of related:

I thought this example was a good example of how to express your veiws and wishes as the creator of an app, while at the same time not trying to force me as an individual to follow their personal morals.

www.3d-coat.com/our_voice.html

I found this respectful, tactfull and even made me think.

You know the real reason it isn't implemented is that the guy didn't feel like it

My impression is that he has skillz but he doesn't "go the extra mile" very often

Quote - I thought this example was a good example of how to express your veiws and wishes as the creator of an app, while at the same time not trying to force me as an individual to follow their personal morals.

www.3d-coat.com/our_voice.html

I found this respectful, tactfull and even made me think.

That's a good Scripture.  Abe Lincoln cited it in his Second Inaugural Address...

Momodot, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the Eva thread logic/rule applies here. There are no legal controversies I am aware of unless 3DU is saying Daz ripped off their technology, which I haven't heard. Otherwise, it certainly is in the interest of potential purchasers I would think and should be no more taboo than the myriad other product discussions here. Mind, the rules have been known to be slippery at times :-)*

"I found this respectful, tactful and even made me think."* 

That is indeed a different & IMO a far better approach. I recall seeing morals sections on a couple of free items but it's unusual to find them on commercial products - not surprising since most don't want to tick off potential customers. 3DCoat's statement is probably done about as well as it can be and is quite admirable.

At the same time, I'm probably just as happy that most businesses refrain. In a diverse world it could get very interesting if you go beyond the generic morality of 'Please don't litter' on your Mickey D's styrofoam. Cookware manufacturers urging purchasers not to prepare pork/beef etc. in their products, admonitions against unseemly wear from clothing companies, Sony thanks you for not watching immoral DVDs on our player, Trojan condoms - forget it, and Smith & Wesson's copywriters would probably implode from the sheer existential contradictions. I don't know. I suppose It's good to make your morals known but at the end of the day if your business is that likely to promote behavior you disagree with... Alfred Nobel probably died wishing he had thought that one out a bit more.

Oops! Opera just requested that I consider not posting anymore, as they do not wish to promote NVIATWAS. Whoulda thunk it from the friggin' Swedes!

Quote - Momodot, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the Eva thread logic/rule applies here. There are no legal controversies I am aware of unless 3DU is saying Daz ripped off their technology...

I read momodot's post as being sarcastic.

"I read momodot's post as being sarcastic." 

My bad then, but with all these strange pods around after the meteor shower...Cletus, you can put the shotgun away.

Well if you want to see a similarly entertaining thread, there's a whole thread about DAZ censoring "Toast" over in the commons forum. In the end, you're not going to convince anyone to change their beliefs when it comes to the morality of showing or not showing "Toast".

Toast? Then names these kids come up with. Is toast aka tubesteak, trouser trout, Mr. Johnson or quim, jelly roll, muffin? On second thought, don't tell me. Like viewing the paparazi's shots of Britney's lady bits it'll probably turn out to be something I'll deeply regret. Peace out. 

 I don't like being called a porn producer because I rendered some nude figures, sometime in the past.. One doesn't equal the other. We're all naked under our clothes.

This IS an important warning about the fine print. I was about to buy TC2, but won't now.  NOT just  because they only built a half way useful product, but because they are insulting to potential customers without any base for their accusations other than their opinions.

To assume someone is guilty without evidence or trial smacks of the Salem witch trials. No, thank you. I'll take my business elsewhere. I am sad to see an accusatory attitude among any vendors.

I will never spend any money on any product by 3DU, who accuses me of unethical conduct.  I am deeply offended and insulted because I might render a classical nude on occasion, and get called unethical.  They could have handled it in another matter (as already pointed out), but they DIDN'T.

Insults ruin ones customer base, and one dissatisfied customer can drive off twenty potential ones. I'm dissatisfied. 

Hi,
IMHO, it's dead anyway. Several months, the G2 females were listed as "in development"  
(one year actually according to a post on 3DU's forum), and now it's back to rank 20
on the "to be done" ranking list, which, reading another post, will not even be respected at all.
("The plugin voting page was merely to give us an idea of demand. ")

Seems they have discarded the G2 plugin and are working on Skye support now.
(/sarcasm on) Great idea, we all need high res V4 textures on a toon! (/sarcasm off)
Personally I have given up the hope that any usable plugin will be available soon.

Best regards,
   Michael

I'm getting that Skye plugin... Seems like a cost-effective way to get new skins for her.

I have TC2 but no plugins yet

Quote - Toast? Then names these kids come up with. Is toast aka tubesteak, trouser trout, Mr. Johnson or quim, jelly roll, muffin? On second thought, don't tell me. Like viewing the paparazi's shots of Britney's lady bits it'll probably turn out to be something I'll deeply regret. Peace out. 

Short answer is YES. For some reason, folks at DAZ don't like people tossing penis's around in the forums so everyone now refers to the male genitalia bits as Toast. A nice SFW appellation that brings up many humourous images along the way. IE: Burnt Toast = A Toast Texture with "Burnt" in specular or other "Burnt" in options.

 Monty Pythonism: "But I don't WANT me toast burnt!  I like it pale!"
                                   "This is the department of toast burning. You want the department of being hit on the head. That's next door!"
                                   "Leave BOTH me heads alone!"

:laugh: DAZ IS located in Utah, the most insular and conservative state in the union.  Should we be surprised by their antics. I suppose not. It IS funny in some ways, though.

It's better to just laugh about it if you ask me.

 Strewth! :lol:

"Toast" is much better than "junk" as a euphemism I think.

Me and the 3D Coat guy are worlds apart but you know... he seems so darn earnest. I read his bio too. I respect that kind of honesty and conviction and I respect people who can communicate their convictions like that in a straight forward and sensitive way. I really would not use 3D-Coat to butter my toast in anyway I thought he thought might be harmful to people or scare the horses or anything after reading that. The reason is that I wouldn't want to hurt the guys feelings. Really.

If 3DU just said, "yeah I was harmed by porn so please don't use my product for porn" or "my faith says I should not help people make porn" or something like that I could totally respect that... but you won't win my sympathesies by being a judgmental prig. Jesus drank wine with the tax collector and the prostitute... if you want to make a difference the thing is to state your convictions and your reasons for them and just maybe it will make someone think or even come around to your point of view. Faith should not come at the edge of a sword. Brow beating someone with plain old abuse just doesn't seem like a real practical way to lead by example.

I want a bumper sticker that says "I was harmed by porn"

I got a paper cut on my finger from a Playboy once...

"...Utah, the most insular and conservative state in the union." Actually, I wouldn't single out Utah. They may be mostly conservative but good people. There are really scary folks  everywhere. Singling out a state or group is painting with too broad a brush. Utah's Gov. has said some delightfully reasonable things compared to another pol I am woefully more familiar with. At least the guy in Utah hasn't mentioned freaking seceding from the freaking Union :-)

 I've been there. I should have said, "In my opinion, the most insular and radically conservative state in the union..." instead of a more absolute statement.  I did NOT like Utah out of 36 states visited so far in my life. It was like a foreign country run by pod people, IMO.

Toast.

It never fails to astound me that people who conceit themselves artists would be so inhibited, prudish and authoritarian.  The role of art in society is to challenge prejudice and violate taboos.  Cultures where artists have failed to do this or where the culture has not tolerated such iconoclasm have not lasted long enough to make their mark on history, sunk beneath the weight of their own hypocrisy and ignorance.

The growing influence of capitalism in the art world is nothing short of toxic.  Rendered 3d art seems particularly prone to lowest-common-denominator capitalist commodification, probably because the medium requires an expensive initial outlay for the tools.  CGI artists and the flock of parasitical support services which follow them around like the beggars' army which followed the Crusaders, picking through the rubble in their wake (and roasting and eating the occasional Muslim who crossed their path), have become so accustomed to giving in to social propriety that almost no one even questions it any more.

I think the reason the priggish finger-waggling by 3d Universe burns my hairy ass so much is that so few artists seem to care that (a) they are being called pornographers for displaying the human body as it actually exists, and (b) among the small group of people who do object to being called pornographers, even fewer object to the unquestioned assumption that making porn is wrong or bad.  As someone who makes subversive, anti-authoritarian, post-modern, pornographic fetish art, I refuse to apologize for doing what I recognize as being both moral and a positive influence on the community.

"If the human body's obscene, complain to the manufacturer, not me." -- Larry Flynt