Awhile ago I remembered reading a discussion or two about how the edges and joints on items would ideally be smoothed, like by using chamferring or fileting to keep a sharp angle from forming.

I saw two things in the galleries the other days that reminded me of this and when it is okay or not to have smoothing on all the edges.  One was a star ship another was a sword.  I've noticed that some types of ships can get away with harder edges than most items, particularly when not zoomed in close.  The second item which was a sword and while it wasn't bad overall, it looked like the blade was one mesh that ran directly through another mesh part the sword was using.  While most of the sword looked nice and smooth, the look of the blade running though another mesh just didn't look right. 

As someone who plays around with hex trying to learn how to model, I do try to make efforts to make sure that edges aren't sharp points with varying degrees of success and failure.  Since I add my creations to my renders from time to time (when they don't stink too badly) I'd just like other's people opinions on when something needs a soft, smoothed edge and when it can get away with something sharper.

Not quite sure what you're asking here - is it whether to model a sharp corner or edge, or whether to allow smoothing to take place at a sharp corner or edge? Are you modeling for Poser (presumably) or for use in another 3D application for rendering? Also, not sure what you're trying to describe regarding the sword, with 'one mesh intersecting another'; if the two objects would normally result in a hard or sharp corner, intersecting as opposed to surface modeling probably wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, until one accounts for Poser's default tendency to smooth edges.

With my own modeling, I tend to take into account that many users may still be using P4, or may be unfamiliar with Poser's ability to adjust smoothing angles, so I split any vertices where I want a crisp corner. Sometimes, I do intersect one object with another if doing so results in a cleaner look than trying to make a microscopic chamfer all around, and I also admit my limited skill with Lightwave sometimes results in some really ugly transitions if I try to Boolean two shapes together.

If an edge would be sharp in real life, I model it sharp and split the vertices along the edge I want to preserve. However, for things like vehicles, I would chamfer pretty much any edge, because at that scale, sharp edges (at least on bodywork) really don't exist, practically - there is always some rounding, say with stamped metal or cast or molded materials. Machined materials are a different thing (and a sword certainly qualifies) - many if not all of their edges are sharp.

Don't know if this helps, but ... there it is ;).

it's been a dream of mine for ages...;) So far, I've had limited success...
1 thing I've found to be moderately successful is, like you said, the bevel/chamfer a 'sharp' edge but a tiny amount (I gravitate towards .005, but if there's a more 'golden' number, someone sing out)

Poser is an 'organic' modeler, and tends to like things to be rounded, blunted, bloated, etc...;)
I find the higher resolution on P5 tends to 'blow up real good', turning cylinders into cassavas, etc..

Another thing you can do is turn of 'smoothing' in the properties of the object. This can be done in
the code generated by Poser for the object (someone will know where it is),  maybe in the pp2 or cr2, I fergit which. That way, things tend to work out a lot better.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, I'm using poser 7 and that's what I'm designing towards.

--Is it whether to model a sharp corner or edge, or whether to allow smoothing to take place at a sharp corner or edge?

Yes, usually I try to smooth the corners as much as possible, but I'd like to know if there could be situations where I need to leave them sharp.

The image I've attached is a crude representation of what I'm talking about.  See how the blade and the hilt (sorry for using a sword but it was what was on my mind) have that sharp edge where they meet?  That's the sort of thing I was thinking about.  Normally I'd try to smooth that and end up breaking the mesh somehow.

I also don't use booleans unless I absolutely have to because in hex at least, that is asking for a problem.

Quote - it's been a dream of mine for ages...;) So far, I've had limited success...
1 thing I've found to be moderately successful is, like you said, the bevel/chamfer a 'sharp' edge but a tiny amount (I gravitate towards .005, but if there's a more 'golden' number, someone sing out) 

Poser is an 'organic' modeler, and tends to like things to be rounded, blunted, bloated, etc...;)
I find the higher resolution on P5 tends to 'blow up real good', turning cylinders into cassavas, etc..

pakled, in my sword modeling, even the edges of my blade get smoothed quite a bit... that's just my style and like you, I've found that sharp edges don't turn out very well.

Quote - Another thing you can do is turn of 'smoothing' in the properties of the object. This can be done in
the code generated by Poser for the object (someone will know where it is),  maybe in the pp2 or cr2, I fergit which. That way, things tend to work out a lot better.

Hope that helps.

Usually I don't turn off smoothing.  The only time I do that is with things like that daz background prop and things with similar meshes because smoothing tends to produce a lot of black grid lines in my final render.

I'd keep a sharp edge where they meet - in real life, they'd be two pieces, with the tang of the sword inserted into the hilt. Same thing as if you were modeling the insertion of a bolt into a plate - they're two distinct pieces so there couldn't be a fillet there at the junction and still be realistic. Now, if the two shapes belong to single object, such as the head of a bolt and its shaft, then, yes, a fillet at the joint would be appropriate (for reference's sake, I use "fillet" for an inside corner, and "chamfer" for an outside corner).

*(click on the image to view full size)*

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Attached Link: image excerpt from THIS TUTORIAL for Poser 6

*(click image to view full size)*

... or, perhaps, this one ... ..... Enjoy!

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

To my eyes, chamfering never looks quite sharp enough.  Only a split edge looks
really lethal.

In my opinion sharp edges never ever look right in Poser... also Poser has trouble rendering them as well as having trouble rendering planes that meet in welded edges. Just today I bought an expensive product in the RMP that has welded edges on the rectilinear forms (broken tiles) that cause the planes to be shaded in the inverse by Poser. Maybe I should ask for a refund. When making things I try to chamfer the edges no matter how sharp an edge they belong to to like a sword blade so that the flat planes will be shaded correctly by Poser. It is sometimes good to add polys even on those planes without detail so the Poser will render them right.

Sharp edges only happen in Poser when you split the verts. That said, with the sword sharp edge as an example, I wouldn't leave that as a sharp edge, even splitting the verts. I would give it just the smallest of chamfers (then split), this allows light to hit that edge. It would still look like a sharp edge but it reacts better for lighting situations. jmo

It's perfectly possible to have sharp edges and smooth, rounded parts on one object. Most people over-complicate this to such an extent that everyone just ends up more confused than when they started. To say that you can only have sharp edges in Poser by splitting vertices is incorrect, as I'll demonstrate. There are times when you will need to split vertices, but they should be the exception rather than the rule.

The first problem is that Poser's crease angle is more or less useless. Being able to set only one smoothing angle for a whole object is pointless. These two renders illustrate why.

The first one is the object as it came into Poser from my modelling software. I know from experience that I want a smoothing angle on the pipes of 50 degrees, but I don't want anywhere near that on the hard edged bits of the model. The crease angle is set to 50 in Poser and you can see all the areas where that is far too much, causing the classic, ugly, over-smoothed Poser look.

The second render is the object after it was taken into Ultimate Unwrap and smoothing angles were set up on a per surface, or material, basis. The pipes get 50 degrees, the small hemispheres at the top left get 0, other bits get 5 degrees and so on.

Back in Poser, the crease angle is still set to 50, but because the smoothing angles were set up in Ultimate Unwrap, Poser respects them and renders accordingly.
There was no splitting of vertices and no adding extra geometry with tiny bevels.

 Ooh so you're saying you can set smoothing angles in another software and have Poser respect it?

In that case.. it should be possible to make a python script that can do that on a material basis, shouldn't it? 

Mind you, all I know about Python is how to execute premade scripts, but since Poser is fairly scriptable and this must be something that is somehow stored in the obj - and you can generate objs with a python script - well... 

I see possibilities here!

one point tho. we found the only real cure for the UV/Import artifact in poser was to split the vertices.

(the artifact and research about it here - www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php and here www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php )

Quote - one point tho. we found the only real cure for the UV/Import artifact in poser was to split the vertices.

(the artifact and research about it here - www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php and here www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php )

That's exactly what I suggested in that original, endless thread. Splitting selected vertices is definitely a valid technique in the right circumstances.

I'm glad this thread happened, I need it too...;)

being the middlin' modeler, I do inorganic modeling, 'cause it's easier than organic modeling...;)

I've been trying to get the effect that Rubicon has above for a long time. Now if I can figure out how to do it in Wings...;) Or Hexagon...

Thanks to the Doc too. Only have Classic, but this is good stuff.

Hmm. I've been experimenting with generating geometry via Python scripts, producing OBJ files, which I then import into Poser. Whatever can be said in OBJ, I can produce in my scripts. Eventually, I plan to produce Poser native files directly, but for the time being, this is how I do it.

The results of external app smoothing configuration - is that stored in the OBJ? If so, what is the incantation that does it? I know, I could Google the OBJ format, but if you know the tag off the top of your head, it would save me some time.

Regardless of how it is done, this is really cool. I've been struggling with adding polygons in key places to avoid the smoothing bloat. If this can be handled with parameters instead, that would be awesome.