Interesting thoughts Alpha. Yes, you are correct that is the real world. However, in this case it is also a contest. Which although, it is artificial also means that we should place our best foot forward. Here is our problem as I and you and Marsh and Slink and Jordy and Picnic and RJH and Bill and Slaanash and Stars ect ( please forgive me if you arn't mentioned ) can empathize. There are roughly 12 of us entering a contest. We all have varying degrees of skill, equipment, tastes, and time. However as a method to hone our skills we each are trying to make the BEST reflection contest picture. Obviously the picture should be clear. ( What's the point of a reflection if it's unclear! ) While it can be fun to make blurry pictures it's probably best not to start experimenting during a contest. IMHO. Also while we're making reflection pictures. It's nice not to see the camera person and it better be interesting!! Ahhh. It's getting tough now! Simple stuff won't cut it!!! Unfortunately that probably makes for the best reflections. Very cutting edge stuff probably won't either. ( I mean really, would a picture of a laser bouncing around inside of a IR analytical instrument be a winner? ) Whacky stuff won't be understood. ( No matter how much I liken a tinnis(sp) ball to a photon and bounce it off of walls photograph it and enter it as my theoretical reflection picture. I will probaly just increase my reputation as a ...somthing or other ) However we are trying to enter something noteworthy. Naturally it is frustrating and unfortunate. =:-( > I have no idea what kind of equipment you own. But I'll bet if I had half of it. I would take better pictures! No I'm not complaining. I'm just stating a fact. Slinky has no digital camera and perhaps no consitent SLR either. Of course he's bummed. There is this contest and he want's to participate but doesen't have the goods-literally! I realize you are trying to encourage many of us not to quit; but to enter and enjoy which I agree with!! But at the same time. Calling people who don't live near a pool, own swim trunks, or are just beginning to swim whimps because they arn't in the water is a little unfair. Bsteph