Hi again jas, You did a good job and I understand the way you tried to compare the two programs. I guess my point is (the short version) none of us can make those two comparrisons for someone else. Each person is different, they work differently and have different visions. All we can really do to help people make the right choice is to point them in the direction of the demos so they can see for themselves. There is no way for us to know which program is better for every individual. One would hesitate to say Vue is better then Bryce when you see works from the likes of andy simmons, Beton, cris pappathon, martin murphy and any one of the hundreds of other super Bryce artist. We cannot say to them hey Vue is better you made the wrong choice. The same can be said about Bryce how can I tell Tesign, Bloodsong, emporer Ken and the others, that Vue is the wrong choice and Bryce is the better of the two? It is impossible for me to decide for them, or know what it is they need in a 3d program. Hmmm.... This ended up being another long version :( In closing 3d renderers are but tools, why would the game myst 3 decide to use max's renderer over better renderers like houdini or lightwave? Who knows, who cares its the tool they decided to use, and it worked well for them. Griggs PS. normal disclosure :) If I missed someones name on the above list there is no way I could name all my favorite artist in either program so the miss is unintentional.