Thanks Esther, LaurieA Joel. I understand both camps too and would like to have both myself, but I can only do one at a time. I am slow enough as it is LOL.

What do you think of this. The shoulder twist? Usually in this pose the collar is all twisted, and I checked and my collar does not twist much at all if any, it's all in the arm and shoulder.  So I did away with collar twist since I have set up my shoulder to handle that bend instead of the collar.

I think it looks more natural. What do you think?  

Looks like I need to reposition the ankle center too.

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A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY